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Featured Do the Wicked Perish

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, May 21, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    We read the verse and yet reject or are taught to disregard it...

    John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    So is what it says true, that the wicked perish or cease to exist? Lets look at what is meant by perish.

    per·ish (pµr“¹sh) v. per·ished, per·ish·ing, per·ish·es. --intr. 1. To die or be
    destroyed, especially in a violent or untimely manner. 2. To pass from existence; disappear gradually. 3. Chiefly British. To spoil or deteriorate. --tr. To bring to destruction; destroy. --idiom. perish the thought. Used to express the wish that one not even think about something.

    The contrast made in the above verses cannot be mistaken. Those who believe in the Son of man will not perish, but will have eternal life. To perish, is to die, to be destroyed, to pass from existence. This truth is repeated two times in a row by the Son of God. The opposite of eternal life, is death, which is non existence. To perish, and to live on through eternity burning in hell, are two very different things. If you have life, then you are alive. It doesn't matter where you are, or what is happening to you, life is life. Non existence is not life. These two things are opposites, and the Lord Jesus Christ uses them to show the difference between believers, and non believers. Non believers will not have life in any form.
     
  2. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Well lets take a look at what the Bible on what will happen to the Wicked...

    Job 21:30 King James Version (KJV)
    "30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath."

    Psalm 37:10 King James Version (KJV)
    "10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

    Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
    "20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

    Psalm 37:28 King James Version (KJV)
    "28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off."

    Psalm 37:38 King James Version (KJV)
    "38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off."

    Psalm 73:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
    "17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

    Psalm 92:7 King James Version (KJV)
    "7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

    Psalm 104:35 King James Version (KJV)
    "35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the Lord, O my soul. Praise ye the Lord."

    Psalm 145:20 King James Version (KJV)
    "20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

    Proverbs 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
    "22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

    Nahum 1:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    "9 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry."

    Malachi 4:1King James Version (KJV)
    "4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

    2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    "8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

    2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
    "6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

    2 Peter 2:9-12 King James Version (KJV)
    9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    2 Peter 3:7 King James Version (KJV)
    "7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

    2 Peter 3:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    "9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

    Revelation 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
    "9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

    Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
    "8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

    And the words of Christ...

    Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
    "13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

    Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
    "28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

    Matthew 13:40-42 King James Version (KJV)
    "40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

    Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
    "41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

    Luke 13:3 King James Version (KJV)
    "3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
     
  3. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Now here is a good overview by Bible Scholar and Adventist theoligian, Samuele Bacchiocchi:

    "The Greek philosopher Socrates (470-399 B. C.) traveled to Egypt to consult the Egyptians on their teachings on the immortality of the soul. Upon his return to Greece, he imparted this teaching to his most famous pupil, Plato (428-348 B. C.).

    In his book, The Phaedo, Plato recounts Socrates' final conversation with his friends on the last day of his life. He was condemned to die by drinking hemlock for corrupting the youths of Athens by teaching them "atheism," that is, the rejection of the gods. The setting was an Athenian prison and the time the summer of 399 B. C. Socrates spent his last day discussing the origin, nature, and destiny of the human soul with his closest friends.

    In the dialogue Socrates repeatedly declares death to be "the separation of the soul from the body" in which it is encased. His language is strikingly similar to that of many Christian churches today....

    In Phaedo, Plato explains that there is a judgement after death for all souls, according to the deeds done in the body. The righteous souls go to heaven and the wicked to hell.5

    This teaching found its way first into Hellenistic Judaism especially through the influence of Philo Judaeus (ca. 20 B.C. A. D. 47) and later into Christianity especially through the influence of Tertullian (ca. 155-230), Origen (ca. 185-254), Augustine (354-430), and Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274). These writers attempted to blend the Platonic view of the immortality of the soul with the biblical teachings on the resurrection of the body....

    The Greek philosophers Socrates and Philo adopted the Egyptian belief in life after death, but redefined it in terms of an immaterial, immortal soul that leaves the prison house of the mortal body at death. They viewed death as the separation of the soul from the body.

    This dualistic teaching found its way into the Christian church toward the end of the second century. It was promoted first by Tertullian, and later on by Origen, Augustine, and Thomas Aquinas. For them death meant the destruction of the body, which enables the immortal soul to continue to live in either the beatitude of Paradise or in the eternal torment of Hell.

    The belief in the survival of the soul contributed to the development of the doctrine of Purgatory, a place where the souls of the dead are purified by suffering the temporal punishment of their sins before ascending to Paradise.

    The Reformers rejected as unbiblical and unreasonable the practice of buying and selling indulgences to reduce the stay of the souls of departed relatives in Purgatory. However, they continued to believe in the conscious existence of souls either in Paradise or Hell..." THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL, POPULAR BELIEFS: ARE THEY BIBLICAL? Samuele Bacchiocchi, excerpts from part I and IV.

    The Bible warns us of those who try to change the true word of scripture or bring in false doctrines to deceive...

    2 Timothy 4:3-5 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

    The Wicked will not receive the truth and will perish...

    2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    The Wicked will destroyed in the end like tares burned in the fire...

    Matthew 13:39-40
    "39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

    The Wicked will receive the reword for their works at the end, they are not in hell with some pitchfork wielding devil....
    Revelation 22:12
    "12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

    The Wicked will be burned up and nothing will remain, just ashes.

    Malachi 4:1-3
    "1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

    The wicked do not burn forever, they will be consumed by the fire at the end and vanish like smoke....

    Psalm 21:9
    "9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them."

    Psalm 37:10
    "10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

    Psalm 37:20
    "20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.."

    Isaiah 1:28
    “And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed”

    The Wicked will receive the opposite of everlasting life and perish, or ceasing to exist....

    John 3:16
    "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
     
  4. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is even more text that show what happens to the wicked.

    Psalm 1:4
    The wicked are not so, But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.

    Psalm 1:6
    For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked will perish.

    Psalm 37:9-10
    For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land. Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there.

    Psalm 37:20
    But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish--like smoke they vanish away.

    Psalm 37:34
    Wait for the LORD and keep His way, And He will exalt you to inherit the land; When the wicked are cut off, you will see it.

    Job 11:20
    "But the eyes of the wicked will fail, And there will be no escape for them; And their hope is to breathe their last."

    Job 13:16
    "This also will be my salvation, For a godless man may not come before His presence.

    Job 18:5
    "Indeed, the light of the wicked goes out, And the flame of his fire gives no light.

    Job 21:28
    "For you say, 'Where is the house of the nobleman, And where is the tent, the dwelling places of the wicked?'

    Job 38:13
    That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it?

    2 Samuel 23:6
    "But the worthless, every one of them will be thrust away like thorns, Because they cannot be taken in hand;

    Ezekiel 33:8
    "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand.

    Isaiah 48:22
    "There is no peace for the wicked," says the LORD.

    Isaiah 57:21
    "There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

    Isaiah 3:11
    Woe to the wicked! It will go badly with him, For what he deserves will be done to him.

    John 9:31
    "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.

    1 Corinthians 6:9
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
     
  5. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    All hail the prophetess Ellen White!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Rev 14:11
     
  7. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is a good overview of the issue...

    "Asserting that the belief of eternal torment is based on pagan philosophy, scholars such as Eng-land's Dr. John Stott argue that such a view of God is inconsistent with the biblical portrait of His character and with Scripture itself. Stott and other prominent Bible teachers propose that the fires will ultimately put the unsaved out of existence.

    The Bible is not ambiguous on the subject. While Jesus did make it very clear that there is a real hell (see Matthew 10:28), He explained something vitally significant in the parable of the wheat and the tares.

    "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire," Jesus said, "so shall it be in the end of this world" (Matthew 13:40). The point is repeated just nine verses later in the parable of the net. The implications of such a position are obvious. First, in sharp contrast to the claims of Vatican City, hell is a real place where the "children of the wicked one" (Matthew 13:38) will be "burned" (verse 40). We also learn that, contrary to the other commonly held view on the subject, nobody has gone there yet.

    It is worth noting that for the majority of times the word translated "hell" is used in Scripture, it literally means "the grave." In only 12 of the 54 times we read the word "hell" does the original word mean "a place of burning."

    Hell "on Earth"
    I was taught as a child that hell was indeed a real place where the wicked would burn forever and that it was located in the center of the earth. I always wondered what would happen if an oil company drilled all the way down to where hell was. And I remember watching the black-and-white movie Journey to the Center of the Earth with great interest!

    But this is another area where the Bible leaves nothing to doubt. Revelation chapter 20 says that 1,000 years after the saints are resurrected, the wicked will be released from their graves. "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them" (Revelation 20:9).

    According to the Bible, the lost are burned "on the breadth of the earth." One of the great promises of the Bible to the pilgrims here below is that we can, "according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Peter 3:13).

    Just as God cleansed the earth in the days of Noah, He will cleanse the earth again at the end of the world, this time with fire. As in Noah's day, sinners will again receive their recompense, and once more it will happen "on the breadth of the earth." God's plan is to recreate this sin-marred earth and return it to its original Edenic splendor. The earth will be transformed into what the Bible calls a "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10). Every last vestige of sin will be burned up, and the curse will be obliterated.",,, https://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/inside-report/magazine/id/10714/t/hath-hell-no-fury-
     
  8. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is another good study with text for each point...
    "WILL there come a day of destruction for the wicked?
    "That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." Job 21:30.

    • How will they be destroyed?
    "Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them." Psalms 21:9.

    • What will happen to evildoers?
    "For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth." Psalms 37:9.

    • What will happen to the wicked?
    "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Psalms 37:10.

    • Will the wicked go on living throughout eternity?
    "But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20.

    • So the wicked will be destroyed and not burn forever?
    "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off." Psalms 37:38.

    • But doesn't "cut off" only mean they will be separated from God?
    "As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God." Psalms 68:2.

    • So then this must mean that the wicked will be no more or consumed?
    "Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD." Psalms 104:35.

    • So there will be a final destruction of the wicked, they will not burn in hell for eternity?
    "The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalms 145:20.

    • What method will God use to destroy the wicked?
    "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14.

    • But I thought the soul never dies?
    "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

    • Will the wicked be burned up completely?
    "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee." Ezekiel 28:18.

    • So they will cease to exist?
    "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:19.

    • How does God feel about the final destruction of the wicked?
    "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" Ezekiel 33:11.

    • So after the destruction of the wicked, sin will never rise up again?
    "What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry." Nahum 1:9-10.

    • How complete will the final destruction of the wicked be?
    "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.

    • Does the New Testament talk about the destruction of the wicked?
    "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" Matthew 7:13

    • Does the New Testament speak about the soul dieing?
    "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28.

    • When will all of this take place?
    "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world." Matthew 13:40.

    Matthew 25:41 speaks of "everlasting fire" for the wicked. Does it go out?
    "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41.?

    NOTE: Yes, according to the Bible, it does. We must let the Bible explain itself. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire and that fire turned them "into ashes" as a warning to "those that after should live ungodly."

    "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 1:7.
    "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;" 2 Peter 2:6.

    These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes.

    "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." Malachi 4:3.

    The effects of the fire are everlasting, but not the burning itself".......https://www.preparingforeternity.com/hellfire.htm

     
  9. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Look at all the translations of Psalm 37:20:

    New International Version
    But the wicked will perish: Though the LORD's enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.

    New Living Translation
    But the wicked will die. The LORD’s enemies are like flowers in a field— they will disappear like smoke.

    English Standard Version
    But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

    Berean Study Bible
    But the wicked and enemies of the LORD will perish like the glory of the fields. They will vanish; like smoke they will fade away.

    New American Standard Bible
    But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish-- like smoke they vanish away.

    New King James Version
    But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away.

    King James Bible
    But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

    Christian Standard Bible
    But the wicked will perish; the LORD's enemies, like the glory of the pastures, will fade away--they will fade away like smoke.

    Contemporary English Version
    Wicked people are enemies of the LORD and will vanish like smoke from a field on fire.

    Good News Translation
    But the wicked will die; the enemies of the LORD will vanish like wild flowers; they will disappear like smoke.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    But the wicked will perish; the LORD's enemies, like the glory of the pastures, will fade away-- they will fade away like smoke.

    International Standard Version
    Indeed, the wicked will perish. The LORD's enemies will be consumed like flowers in the fields. They will vanish like smoke.

    NET Bible
    But evil men will die; the LORD's enemies will be incinerated--they will go up in smoke.

    New Heart English Bible
    But the wicked shall perish. The enemies of the LORD shall be like the beauty of the fields. They will vanish--vanish like smoke.

    It is clear what will happen to the wicked...
     
  10. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is a very balance review of what happens to the wicked by Bible Scholar and SDA Theologian
    Samuele Bacchiocchi ... "What Is Hell–Gehenna? Before looking at Christ's references to hell–gehenna, we may find it helpful to consider the derivation of the word itself. The Greek word gehenna is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Valley of (the sons of) Hinnon," located south of Jerusalem. In ancient times, it was linked with the practice of sacrificing children to the god Molech (2 Kings 16:3; 21:6; 23:10). This earned it the name "Topheth," a place to be spit on or aborred.26 This valley apparently became a gigantic pyre for burning the 185,000 corpses of Assyrian soldiers whom God slew in the days of Hezekiah (Is 30:31-33; 37:36).

    Jeremiah predicted that the place would be called "the valley of Slaughter" because it would be filled with the corpses of the Israelites when God judged them for their sins. "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the valley of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter: for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere. And the dead bodies of this people will be food for the beasts of the air, and for the beasts of the earth; and none will frighten them away" (Jer 7:32-33).

    Josephus informs us that the same valley was heaped with the dead bodies of the Jews following the A. D. 70 siege of Jerusalem.26 We have seen that Isaiah envisions the same scene following the Lord's slaughter of sinners at the end of the world (Is 66:24). During the intertestamental period, the valley became the place of final punishment, and was called the "accursed valley" (1 Enoch 27:2,3), the "station of vengeance" and "future torment" (2 Bar 59:10, 11), the "furnace of Gehenna" and "pit of torment" (4 Esd 7:36).

    Though the imagery of the gehenna is common in the Jewish literature of this period, the description of what happens there is contradictory. Edward Fudge concludes his survey of the literature, saying: "We have seen a few passages in the Pseudepigrapha which specifically anticipate everlasting torment of conscious bodies and/or souls, as well as one such verse in the Apocrypha. Many other passages within the intertestamental literature also picture the wicked being consumed by fire, but it is the consuming, unquenchable fire of the Old Testament which utterly destroys for ever, leaving only smoke as its reminder. It is fair to say that, to those who first heard the Lord, gehenna would convey a sense of total horror and disgust. Beyond that, however, one must speak with extreme caution."27

    Jesus and Hell's Fire. With this note of caution, let us look at the seven references to gehenna–hell fire that we find in the Gospels. In The Sermon on the Mount, Jesus states that whoever says to his brother "'you fool!' shall be liable to the hell [gehenna] of fire" (Matt 5:22; KJV). Again, He said that it is better to pluck out the eye or cut off the hand that causes a person to sin than for the "whole body go into hell [gehenna] (Matt 5:29, 30). The same thought is expressed later on: it is better to cut off a foot or a hand or pluck out an eye that causes a person to sin than to "be thrown into eternal fire . . . be thrown into the hell [gehenna] of fire" (Matt 18:8, 9). Here the fire of hell is described as "eternal." The same saying is found in Mark, where Jesus three times says that it is better to cut off the offending organ than "to go to hell [gehenna], to the unquenchable fire . . . to be thrown into hell [gehenna], where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44, 46, 47-48). Elsewhere, Jesus chides the Pharisees for traversing sea and land to make a convert and then making him "twice as much a child of hell [gehenna]" (Matt 23:15). Finally, he warns the Pharisees that they will not "escape being sentenced to hell [gehenna]" (Matt 23:33).

    In reviewing Christ's allusions to hell–gehenna, we should first note that none of them indicates that hell–gehenna is a place of unending torment. What is eternal or unquenchable is not the punishment, but the fire. We noted earlier that in the Old Testament this fire is eternal or unquenchable in the sense that it totally consumes dead bodies. This conclusion is supported by Christ's warning that we should not fear human beings who can harm the body, but the One "who can destroy both soul and body in hell [gehenna]" (Matt 10:28). The implication is clear. Hell is the place of final punishment, which results in the total destruction of the whole being, soul and body.

    Robert Peterson argues that "Jesus is not speaking here of literal annihilation," because in the parallel passage in Luke 12:5 the verb "destroy" is not used. Instead, it says: "Fear him who, after killing the body, has power to throw you into hell" (Luke 12:5). From this Peterson concludes: "The destruction mentioned in Matthew 10:28, therefore, is equivalent to being thrown into hell,"28 that is, eternal torment. The fundamental problem with his argument is that he assumes first that"being thrown into hell" means everlasting torment. Then he uses his subjective assumption to negate the self-evident meaning of the verb "to destroy–apollumi." Peterson ignores a basic principle of Biblical interpretation which requires unclear texts to be explained on the basis of those which are clear and not viceversa. The fact that Jesus clearly speaks of God destroying both the soul and body in hell shows that hell is the place where sinners are ultimately destroyed and not eternally tormented."...https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/immortality-or-resurection/immortality-or-resurection-ch4.php#.Xs_uJnKSm1s
     
  11. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Its clear if you look, many are beginning to see this truth...
    "SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT HELL IS THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. THE SAME FIRE THAT DESTROYS THE UNGODLY IS THE FIRE THAT BURNS THE HEAVENS AND EARTH.

    2 Peter 3:7
    By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

    And then this promise is given:

    But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

    So the wicked will perish and we see that this fire is so consuming that it also destroys the elements.

    But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare

    But then after everything is destroyed in this way, God creates a new Heavens and Earth where righteousness and the righteous dwell.

    Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.b That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."....https://heavennet.net/doctrine/wicked-will-destroyed/
     
  12. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Also came across this on the meaning of perish...
    "Dr. Weymouth, head master of Mill Hill School, and one of the finest Greek scholars, says, "My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying 'destroy,' or 'destruction,' are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. To translate black as white is nothing to this."

    Biblical References of the Word Perish

    Hebrew "'abad, Definition - Perish, be destroyed"

    Hebrew "shamad, Definition - be destroyed, exterminated (Niphal); destroy, exterminate (Hiphil)

    Greek "apollumi, Definition - to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed"

    Genesis 41:36

    That food shall be a reserve for the land against the seven years of famine that are to occur in the land of Egypt, so that the land may not perish through the famine.”

    Exodus 19:21

    And the Lord said to Moses, “Go down and warn the people, lest they break through to the Lord to look and many of them perish.

    Exodus 21:26

    “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye....


    Numbers 24:20

    Then he looked on Amalek and took up his discourse and said, “Amalek was the first among the nations, but its end is utter destruction.”

    Numbers 24:24

    But ships shall come from Kittim and shall afflict Asshur and Eber; and he too shall come to utter destruction.”

    Deuteronomy 4:26

    I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that you will soon utterly perish from the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess. You will not live long in it, but will be utterly destroyed.

    Deuteronomy 8:19

    And if you forget the Lord your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I solemnly warn you today that you shall surely perish.....

    Deuteronomy 28:20

    “The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me.......

    Esther 7:4

    For we have been sold, I and my people, to be destroyed, to be killed, and to be annihilated. If we had been sold merely as slaves, men and women, I would have been silent, for our affliction is not to be compared with the loss to the king.”

    Esther 8:11

    saying that the king allowed the Jews who were in every city to gather and defend their lives, to destroy, to kill, and to annihilate any armed force of any people or province that might attack them, children and women included, and to plunder their goods,....

    Job 20:7

    he will perish forever like his own dung; those who have seen him will say, ‘Where is he?’...

    Psalm 9:18

    For the needy shall not always be forgotten, and the hope of the poor shall not perish forever.

    ]Psalm 10:16

    The Lord is king forever and ever; the nations perish from his land.

    Psalm 37:20

    But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away....


    Psalm 83:10

    who were destroyed at Endor, who became dung for the ground.

    Psalm 83:17

    Let them be put to shame and dismayed forever; let them perish in disgrace,......

    Isaiah 26:14

    They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.....

    Jeremiah 10:15

    They are worthless, a work of delusion; at the time of their punishment they shall perish.......

    Daniel 2:18

    and told them to seek mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that Daniel and his companions might not be destroyed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.....


    Matthew 5:29

    If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

    Matthew 5:30

    And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell....

    Matthew 9:17

    Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”....

    Luke 5:37

    And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed.....

    John 3:16

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    John 6:27

    Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

    John 10:28

    I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand....

    2 Peter 2:12

    But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction

    2 Peter 3:6

    and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.

    2 Peter 3:9

    The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

    Jude 11

    Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.

    Observations:

    • The wicked shall perish.
    • The saved shall never perish.
    • The sincere reader will understand that the primary meaning of perish is to die, to lose life, to come to an end, or to be destroyed.
    • PERISH is paralleled with die, kill, destroyed, consumed, slain, being eat up, laid waste, go to nothing, be as nothing, vanish, withereth, cut off, turn again unto dust, deceased, fade away and utterly wasted....

    • As to any secondary meanings of perish, NONE express a continual process without an understood end.
    • As to any secondary meanings of perish, NONE even remotely express the theory of endless torment..
    N. T. Use of the Word Apollumi (Perish, Destroy)
    A consideration of the words used in the Greek New Testament.

    We now would direct the reader to the New Testament, and the examination of the words used therein in the teaching, warning, or demonstration of the wages of sin"....What is the Biblical Meaning of Perish?
     
  13. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    The wicked will perish in the fire of the Lord where sin and sinners will cease...

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
     
  14. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    When one looks at the translations and commentary, its clear the wicked are destroyed, consumed and no more.

     
  15. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Barnes' Notes on the Bible

    But the wicked shall perish - The general sentiment here is the same as in Psalm 1:1-6, that the righteous shall be prospered and saved, and that the wicked shall perish. See the notes at Psalm 1:4-5. The word "perish" here would be applicable to any form of destruction - death here, or death hereafter - for it is equivalent to the idea that they shall be "destroyed." Whether the psalmist means here to refer to the fact that they will be cut off from the earth, or will be punished hereafter in the world of woe, cannot be determined from the word itself. It is most probable, as appears from other parts of the psalm, that he refers particularly to the fact that they will be cut down in their sins; that their lives will be shortened by their crimes; that they will by their conduct expose themselves to the displeasure of God, and thus be cut off. The "word" used, however, would also express the idea of destruction in the future world in any form, and may have a significance beyond anything that can befall men in this life. Compare 2 Thessalonians 1:8; Matthew 25:46.
    They shall consume - The word used here means to be completed or finished; to be consumed or spent, as by fire, or in any other manner; to pine away by weeping, Lamentations 2:11; to vanish as a cloud or smoke, Job 7:9.

    Into smoke - The meaning here is not that they will vanish as the fat of lambs does in sacrifice, but simply that they will pass away as smoke entirely disappears. All that there was of them - their wealth, their splendor, their power - shall utterly vanish away. This is spoken in contrast with what would be the condition of the righteous.

    Psalm 37:20.It is applied to time, as vanishing and disappearing Job 7:6; and to the destruction or perishing of men; Jeremiah 16:4; Ezekiel 5:13. The idea is that of complete and entire consumption and destruction, so that none shall be left. Applied to future punishment, it means that the destruction of sinners shall be total and complete. There shall be no sinner who shall not be destroyed; and there shall be none destroyed whose destruction shall not be entire and total. The expression here refers to the heavy calamities which were about to come upon the guilty nation, but it is as descriptive of the future punishment that shall come upon the wicked.


    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    20. While the wicked, however mighty, are destroyed, and that utterly, as smoke which vanishes and leaves no trace.
    Matthew Poole's Commentary
    Fat of lambs, which in an instant melteth before the fire. Consume into smoke, i.e. utterly and irrecoverably,

    Geneva Study Bible

    But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the {n} fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
    (n) They will vanish away suddenly for they are fed for the day of slaughter.

    Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    20. Stanza of Kaph. The end of the wicked.

    the enemies of the Lord] For His people’s enemies are His enemies. Cp. Psalm 92:9.

    as the fat of lambs] A rendering derived from the Targum. But the consumption of the fat of the sacrifice upon the altar would be a strange simile for the evanescence of the wicked: and we must render as the excellency of the pastures, or, (R.V.) as the splendour of the meadows. The gay show of flowers, so quickly vanishing, is an apt emblem for the short-lived pomp of the wicked.

    The force of the comparison is hardly realised in our moist northern climate, where verdure is perpetual. “But let a traveller ride over the downs of Bethlehem in February, one spangled carpet of brilliant flowers, and again in May, when all traces of verdure are gone; or let him push his horse through the deep solid growth of clovers and grasses in the valley of the Jordan in the early spring, and then return and gallop across a brown, hard-baked, gaping plain in June, … and the Scriptural imagery will come home to him with tenfold power.” Tristram’s Natural History of the Bible, p. 455. Cp. Psalm 37:2; Matthew 6:29-30; James 1:10-11.

    they shall consume &c. Lit. they are consumed; in smoke (or, like smoke) are they consumed away. Smoke is in itself a natural figure of speedy and complete disappearance (Hosea 13:3): possibly, however, the idea of the preceding line is continued, and we are to think of “the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven” (Matthew 6:30). The perfect tense, as in Psalm 36:12, forcibly expresses the realising certainty of faith.
     
  16. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is a good description on a verse we all know...
    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). A double enunciation of the truth is couched in this short text. It is that eternal life is to be obtained only through Christ, and that all who do not thus obtain it will eventually perish. John testifies further on the same point in his first epistle (1 John 5:11): "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." From which it follows, as a most natural consequence, that "he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." Verse 12.

    Dr. Weymouth, head master of Mill Hill School, and one of the finest Greek scholars, says, "My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying 'destroy,' or 'destruction,' are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. To translate black as white is nothing to this."


    * The wicked shall perish.​
    • The saved shall never perish.
    • The sincere reader will understand that the primary meaning of perish is to die, to lose life, to come to an end, or to be destroyed.
    • PERISH is paralleled with die, kill, destroyed, consumed, slain, being eat up, laid waste, go to nothing, be as nothing, vanish, withereth, cut off, turn again unto dust, deceased, fade away and utterly wasted.
    • PERISH is illustrated by dung, turning again to dust, consuming into smoke, melting like wax before a fire, melting away, a vine being burned by fire, breath leaving a body, years being shortened, a city being uninhabited, and bottles breaking.
    • PERISH is contrasted to prolonging days, days not failing, enduring, abiding, having no end, living, eternal life, everlasting life, being renewed, and remaining.
    • Things that perish are land, an eye, people, weapons of war, dung, beasts, names, expectations, riches, wisdom of wise men, nations, kingdoms, houses, body members, bottles, hair, meat, and money.
    • That which causes things to perish are famine, God's wrath, smiting, warring nations, sickness, the sword, battle, fire, want of clothing, evil travail, and hunger.
    • As to any secondary meanings of perish, NONE express a continual process without an understood end.
    • As to any secondary meanings of perish, NONE even remotely express the theory of endless torment.
    N. T. Use of the Word Apollumi (Perish, Destroy)
    A consideration of the words used in the Greek New Testament.

    We now would direct the reader to the New Testament, and the examination of the words used therein in the teaching, warning, or demonstration of the wages of sin.

    Apollumi.- This word is translated in the A.V. as follows: "Destroy," 23 times; "lose," 21 times; "be destroyed," 3 times; "be lost," 10 times; "be marred," once; "die," once; and "perish," 33 times
    .....https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/perish.php#.Xy6XRohKi1s

    They will cease to exist and suffer annihilation, not continue in any form. They will not have eternal life, sin will be no more.
     
    #16 Hobie, Aug 8, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    What an in depth study!
    Most of the passages quoted above do point to utter destruction.
    What do you make of this survivor?:

    "...into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    where their worm dieth not
    and the fire is not quenched...
    ...to be cast into hell,
    into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    where their worm dieth not
    and the fire is not quenched...
    ...it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God
    with one eye,
    than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
    where their worm dieth not,
    and the fire is not quenched."
    Mark 9:43-48
     
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  18. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Lets go to the text:

    Mark 9:43-48 King James Version (KJV)
    43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
    48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    Christ repeats the warning, "worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" against the wicked. The word here used for hell is gehenna, a word used to designate the valley of Hinnom, near Jerusalem. The use of this word throws light on the passage that Christ uses as it called to the minds of his hearers was that of complete and utter destruction that ended only when it was done. The Jews were familiar with the language and words used as Isaiah and Jeremiah frequently used them:

    Jeremiah 17:27 King James Version (KJV)
    27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

    We read in Jeremiah 17:27, how God said that he would kindle a fire in the gates of Jerusalem which should not be quenched. We look at the fulfillement:

    2 Chronicles 36:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
    19 And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.
    20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
    21 To fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

    2 Chronicles 36:19-21 records the fulfillment of this unquenchable fire. It was simply a fire which burned until it had entirely consumed the gates and palaces of Jerusalem.

    We see in Isaiah this text:
    Isaiah 1:28-31 King James Version (KJV)
    28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
    29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
    30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
    31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

    Again a fire that cannot be quenched or eternal fire, but notice the word 'comsumed' describing the 'destruction' of the 'transgressors' and 'sinners'. The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha:

    Jude 7 King James Version (KJV)
    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we see it was "set forth for an example" which we find in this text:

    2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

    The fire in which the "worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" and the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be consumed, no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.
     
  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    They do not cease to exist Hobie.
    I agree, let us go to the text.
    The Bible states that the Lake of Fire is an unquenchable fire that deals eternal torment.
    It does not teach annihilationism for the wicked / unaved.
     
    #19 Dave G, Aug 20, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Notice that in Revelation 14:9-11, if any man worships the beast and his image and receives his mark, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God:

    " And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
    ( Revelation 14:9-11 ).

    This tells me that there will be men who experience eternal suffering, and they do so for several reasons.


    " And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." ( Revelation 19:20 ).

    Above, we see that men are cast alive into the Lake of Fire.

    " And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." ( Revelation 20:10 ).

    Above, we see that those men will be tormented day and night forever.
    Also, he ( or she ) shall also be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
    The smoke of that torment ascends up forever and ever.

    They have no rest, day or night.:Sick

    The word of God teaches eternal suffering for men, Hobie...
    I'm not sure why you do not echo that, unless it's because you disagree with the words on the page.
    Hobie,
    Unlike what you are stating, the Bible says that the Lake of Fire does not consume a person who is cast into it.
    There will be and are, right now, people who are tormented day and night forever.
    The story of Lazarus and the rich man ( Luke 16:19-31 ) confirms it.

    That destruction will never end...
    It is an eternal, consuming destruction, because their "worm" ( Remorse; that which incessantly gnaws the conscience; that which torments. ) does not die.
    It is an eternal state of conscious torment and is the payment for sin.

    That torment was reserved for the Devil and his angels, and Hell has enlarged herself to accommodate mankind in our rebellion.
    The wrath of God has been leveled at men who follow the devil in their actions ( rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, 1 Samuel 15:23 ).
    That rebellion has a price, and it is an eternal one.


    Despite what you are stating, sir, the Bible states it quite differently.
    On this subject, I see you not believing the word of God.:(
     
    #20 Dave G, Aug 20, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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