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Featured General Reconciliation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Sep 2, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This Calvinist posted this question in post #95, and ignored the answer of post #96. He has continued to repost this false charge over and over again (posts # 98 and 100).
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I'm just pointing out how treacherous your opinions are. Have you ever studied Calvin? Or just don't like what others say about him?
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another change the subject post. This is all Calvinism has to offer, disparage those presenting scripture after scripture demonstrating how "treacherous" and false Calvinism is.

    Christ died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6) not for just a few.
    Christ bought with His blood those heading for destruction (2 Peter 2:1)
    Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world (mankind). 1 John 2:2

    Scripture is right and those who make it to no effect are wrong.
     
  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Really?
    The question was “Do humans play a part in the means by which they are saved? Or is the means by which humans are saved entirely by God alone?”

    Where in your Post #96 does it say “humans play a part” or “God alone”? From what I read, you avoided either choice and gave a politician’s answer ... “the blood of Jesus saves us”.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The means of salvation was provided by God the Son alone, as my answer said. Please stop your constant smokescreed.
    Did I say humans put ourselves into Christ? Nope Did I say God puts us into Christ after He credits our faith, as righteousness? Yes The OP, post #1.

    Propitiation provides the means of salvation from the wrath of God. And just what is this means? The blood of Christ, the life laid down as a ransom for all. Everyone and anyone placed into Christ as our propitiatory shelter obtains salvation, they are forgiven and the decrees against them are set aside.

    Did I say the blood of Christ saves us? Nope I said the blood of Christ provides the means of salvation. I said everyone and anyone placed into Christ as our propitiatory shelter obtains salvation.
    Did the blood of Christ saves the person heading for destruction, 2 Peter 2:1? Nope, a person must be put in Christ by God alone. God alone puts those of His choosing into Christ. No one else.
    Will the Calvinists misrepresent my view yet again? You bet, they present falsehoods from Calvinism non-stop.
     
    #105 Van, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    There was no “smokescreed”.
    I understand your view (and simply disagree that Scripture teaches it). However, as even you have just pointed out, your response in Post #96 did not answer the “either/or” question of post #95, but required one to go back and combine post #96 with post #1 to obtain “humans play a part” as the answer.

    “God puts us into Christ after He credits our faith, as righteousness?“ ... You could have just posted this in Post #96 and answered the Question from Post #95 without all of the effort to avoid saying that people play a part, when you do believe that we play a part ... through our faith.

    (If I have misunderstood your position, then what is the source of “our faith“ if it is not us?)
     
  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You make a distinction without a difference.
     
  8. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    Maybe Paul didn’t know about Job?! Since your references are couched as absolutes, it only takes one example to refute your take on them.

    Job 1:1 (KJV) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

    Job 1:8 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

    God also give testimony that someone can repent, which shows up in numerous passages, Old and New Testaments.

    Luke tells us of Cornelius, who sought after God.
    Acts 10:2 (KJV) [A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
    But Jesus offered the best proof, in the passage you were responding to, since He accounted for both the wicked and the righteous—based on their works, for which they will be judged.

    These passages can’t conflict, so we have to understand them correctly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You never answered the question in post #96.
    What is the means of salvation, van?
    Do humans play a part in the means by which they are saved? Or is the means by which humans are saved entirely by God alone?
    Van, I believe the means of salvation is entirely by God alone. Do you agree?
     
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Are you honestly claiming Job was sinless?
    The Hebrew does not say he was sinless.
    Second, was Job chosen by God or did Job choose God and therefore Job's choice caused God to declare Job blameless?
     
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  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is serious. If Calvin is right about God, you hate him with a passion and serve an idol of your own making.
     
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You are picking only the scriptures you can use to float your false doctrine. You leave out all the verses that force a constraint on them. The atonement saves. You say it does not. It only makes a way for the self-righteous to save themselves. Which is Pelagianism, a heresy refuted in 431 by the Council of Ephesus.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Only that you asked a question that I had answered over and over again before you asked it in post #96
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Some why did you alter my view?
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Smokescreed, as even an Calvinist agrees with me.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Smokescreed attacking me with false charges rather than addressing 1 John 2:2, 1 Peter 2:1, and 1 Timothy 2:6
    The biblical doctrine of reconciliation is general not particular.
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There is no reconciliation apart from God's first atoning for those he reconciles. He would not be good otherwise.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Smokescreed yet again, here my view is misrepresented. No verse or passage "constrains" general reconciliation.
    I say we are saved by God alone, and you make the material false statement I say the lost "save themselves." Then based on your misrepresentation, you make yet another false charge.

    On and on folks, all Calvinists have is smear and misrepresent. Christ died forl mankind, providing the means of salvation for mankind, but only those God alone puts into Christ "receive that reconciliation." And God puts individuals into Christ on the basis of faith in Christ, as credited by God as righteousness.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here Dave posts that He agrees with my view, but posts it in a way one might infer I had said something different.

    On and on folks, Calvinism cannot be defended from scripture so this is the sort of smokescreed that must be used.
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You need to explain how God can reconcile sinners without first paying for their reconciliation. How can he bee good if he cuts corners and does bad things?
     
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