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Calvinism Misrepresents the Meaning of Death

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JD731, Sep 29, 2020.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    This is a joke right?
     
  2. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for helping with my point. A frog can die but a frog cannot die spiritually because a frog does not have spiritual life. He has a soul but it is not eternal like that of a man. The frog is alive as long as his soul and body are together. To have spiritual life one must have the Spirit. Only two men in the OT had spiritual life and that was Adam and our Lord Jesus. One sinned and died spiritually and the other did not sin, though he died, but not for his own sin but for the sins of others. Adam was not "sealed" in righteousness as we are now through Christ. We have an eternal advocate according to 1 john 1 and 2 whose sacrifice has propitiated God, the offended party and confession to him will keep us in fellowship with him because we are his born again sons. If you do not think you can define spiritual death by the Spirit being absent the body please explain these two verses I give you here.

    1 Pet 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    He was dead until he was quickened.

    Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Jesus Christ was dead for three days and was alive again when the Spirit entered into his body. This is spiritual life. If you deny this tell me plainly.

    A Calvinist and a so called Armenian are both dead in their sins spiritually and they got this condition from Adam. The remedy for this condition is "Life," which God gives to all men who will receive it. They must get this life from God and it is possible for all men because the sacrifice of Jesus Christ took sin away and appeased the anger of God against sinners. He has been reconciled to sinners by the payment of sin by his own Son. Now, sinners can be and must be reconciled to God by the same agent, Jesus Christ and his death. I am not reconciled to God because I am prechosen in the misty past eternity, but because I heard that God had provided the way for me to to be reconciled to him through Jesus Christ and I believed it. The promise of God is at stake here if you say that doesn't work. You are asking me to believe you over him. The Spirit who gives life is pictured as life giving water from above. As the water of the flood that rose so deep that it was over every ones heads and destroyed them all, this water of life is poured out from heaven by God so deep that he is over everyone's head and is life for the whole world. This is a contrasting type given in the scriptures and is like this contrasting type stated as follows. As in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.

    The Bible is a spiritual book and many of you men are like the Israelites of old. It was said of them in the Hebrews when they would not enter into the rest of God, salvation, that they did not know the ways of God. Isa 55 says his ways are above our ways and his thoughts are above our thoughts. You men are missing most of God's truths by being blinded by these non sensical additions to the word of God.
     
    #62 JD731, Oct 2, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No it's not a Joke. If Adam fell you should be able to prove it with scripture alone.
    MB
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Adam was JUST a created human, Jesus was human and also God!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is Jesus God?
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nope, he is dead earnest!
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Romans 5:12
     
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we born as sinners or not, as babies are able to sin pretty much on their own!
     
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Your verse says Adam sinned it does not say he fell. I already know he sinned this does not mean he fell. If in fact he did fall from where and to where did he fall?
    MB
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He changed to not being afraid of God, to realizing was now a sinner and was very afraid to face God!
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    From sinless immortal to sinful mortal.
    If you can't figure that one out......
    It's like the "Trinity."
    My verse? I didn't write it.
     
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    We are not born sinners we are born in sin.I believe this means a sinful world we are born in to.
    MB
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    That is not falling this is called changing. By the way he was not spiritually dead. because he still spoke to God even after being put out of the Garden.
    MB
     
  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Show me a verse that says a Spiritually dead man can not talk to God.
     
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he needed to be clothed and to have a savior due to now fallen away from God!
     
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean but your terminology doesn't fit what actually happened by saying he fell. Satan fell from heaven, Adam sinned. Adam was put out of the garden but even though he sinned he could still speak with God. Adam was not spiritually dead. why?
    MB
     
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It is a Calvinist claim that man is spiritually dead until regeneration that he cannnot hear or understand the things of God. Although God spoke to Adam and Cain as well and they understood.
    MB
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That is actually an Ephesians 2 claim.
     
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  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That is a 1 Corinthians 2 and a 2 Corinthians 4 claim, not a claim invented by Calvinists.
     
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  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You know good and well the fall is what we call the sin of Adam. He fell from his state of innocence. And yes, you CAN prove that from Scripture alone. Sola Scriptura does not mean the words have to be there. Otherwise we would have to deny the Trinity.
     
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