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Doctrine Statement - Sword of the Lord

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Jan 4, 2021.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    This is the Doctrine Statement of the Sword of the Lord
    What parts do you not agree or fully agree?

    Curtis Hutson - Wikipedia
     
    #1 Salty, Jan 4, 2021
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Looks like he was KJVO then?
     
    #2 Yeshua1, Jan 4, 2021
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Not J.R. - that was added in the last administration. John of Japan would probably know all the details.
     
    #3 Salty, Jan 4, 2021
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I meant that person who you named!
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Jan 5, 2021
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  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Loved hearing old John R Rice at some Sword conferences (1960's heyday) although he himself was "old school" and not an attractive role model for us young preachers. Sword of the Lord was uber-right wing (theological), anti-scholarship, hatred of anything they usually-falsely labeled Calvinism, and so works-centered that you'd think they were Nazarene!!

    They edited sermons and articles they published to make it look like great men like Spurgeon somehow agreed with their false doctrines. That dishonesty led my pastor to stop providing free copies at our church and set the stage for me, when I became a pastor, do downplay the Sword as well.

    They were also fixated on "numbers" with exaggerated reports, soul-winning/bussing "contests" all centered around a man-centric sham Gospel. Even Jack Hyles, a great leader of the movement and in most issues of the SOTL admitted he would be happy of 15% of his converts and church members were truly born again.
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Jan 11, 2021
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  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Most of the excesses of the SOTL crowd and false doctrine/methodology they promoted were addressed in a rival paper Biblical Evangelist, edited by Robert Sumner. He led the charge against the Hyles machine and was rooted in GARBC movement - strong doctrinal foundation
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Jan 11, 2021
  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    From Wiki: In 1982, Sumner left The Sword after a dispute with the editor that was mediated by Jack Hyles. After the ordeal, Sumner complained that he was left "without an editorial voice", so he restarted The Biblical Evangelist by sending letters to former subscribers asking them to resubscribe. Sumner continued as editor of the Biblical Evangelist until 2016, publishing the last edition only two months before he died.[3]
     
    #7 Salty, Jan 11, 2021
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    While I am pro using the KJV I disagree with, ". . . and in the King James Bible, is verbally and plenarily inspired of God." Or that of any translation.
     
    #8 37818, Jan 12, 2021
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like 5 point Arminians?
     
    #9 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2021
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Yes, this is the position that Curtis Hutson came to hold, and is also the current position of the Sword and Editor Shelton Smith.

    Hutson would have initially held the same position as John R. Rice, and was even involved in the early stages of the New King James Version. At some point he moved to the KJVO position.
    The Biblical Evangelist (past issues) is online HERE.
     
    #10 rlvaughn, Jan 12, 2021
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, as inspiration refers only to the originals, and one can be KJVP, but not KJVO!
     
    #11 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2021
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So the Sword of the Lord should be retitled Sword for just the KJV!
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2021
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  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Correct. They are almost cult-like in many of their doctrinal beliefs and, from that flawed theology, devolve into man-worship of "big names" and "success".

    I join those who think any religious group that denies (or redefines it from biblical absolutes) complete depravity and inability of man for salvation (and as such, no need for grace to save since men are not helpless sinners) has no right to the label "Christian".
     
    #13 Dr. Bob, Jan 12, 2021
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  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Curtis Hutson wrote a booklet called Why I Disagree With All 5 Points of Calvinism. To be fair, though, he called the first point "Total Inability" and wrote, "I believe in total depravity." Also calls five "Perseverance of the Saints" and says "I believe in the eternal security of the born-again believer." (I mention these because of the different ways the "T" and "P" points are stressed by various writers.)
     
    #14 rlvaughn, Jan 12, 2021
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Seems like the theology of Finney though getting a revival in this land!
     
    #15 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2021
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think many are 4 arminians pointers, as hold to eternal security still!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2021
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  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Sadly, even many of these hold to their own "works" brand of eternal security. If you don't do "XYZ" then you lose your salvation. It is often thought of as YOUR salvation, instead of GOD's salvation which, of course, can never be lost
     
    #17 Dr. Bob, Jan 12, 2021
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  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Dr Bob - serious question here -
    Would you ever consider being pastor (say - extended pulpit supply, interim pastor) of a Free will Baptist church?

    I did for about 5 months, when I was in West Virginia. The "agreement" was that eternal security would not be brought up by either me or the (small) church. After about 3 months -one of the ladies stated that she could tell I was preaching eternal security. - let me mention, she was not critical of me - I was not doing so on purpose or directly - but she mentioned that my general preaching indicated ES. That got me to thinking - how else can you preach the Gospel without ES?

    So if offered would you take such a position?
     
    #18 Salty, Jan 12, 2021
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So basic to me this issue, as the Lord Jesus stated clearly that NONE that the Father saved and gave to Him shall ever be lost again!
     
    #19 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2021
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    From the Scriptures, I see it as both:

    " In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," ( Ephesians 1:13 ).

    Also, see 2 Corinthians 1:6.
     
    #20 Dave G, Jan 22, 2021
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