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Who is the 'Queen of Heaven', and what is the Catholic belief.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    We can start by looking at the Cathechism...and we see a person who died and according to the church has been elevated to assume the prerogatives of Christ:

    "Daily, daily sing to Mary Sing, my soul, her praises due;
    All her feasts, her actions worship, With the heart's devotion true.
    She is mighty to deliver; Call her, trust her lovingly;
    When the tempest rages round thee, She will calm the troubled sea.
    Gifts of heaven she has given, Noble Lady, to our race;
    She the Queen who decks her subject, With the light of God's own grace." (Baltimore Catechism No.1, 63)

    Notice the references to the Queen of Heaven.
    Here is RCC belief about Mary...from the Catholic Catechism

    PART ONE
    THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
    SECTION TWO
    THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
    CHAPTER THREE
    I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
    ARTICLE 9
    "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
    Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
    963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer.... She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."500 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."501
    I. MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH
    Wholly united with her Son . . .
    964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";502 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

    Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."503 965 After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."504 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."505
    . . . also in her Assumption
    966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."506 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

    In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.507 . . . she is our Mother in the order of grace
    967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)508 of the Church.
    968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."509
    969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."510
    970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."511 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."512
    II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
    971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."513 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."514 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.515
    III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH
    972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"516 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.

    In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.517 IN BRIEF
    973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.
    974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.
    975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG # 15)....
     
  2. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So is any of this in scripture, what does the Bible tell us about Mary? Here is a good study I came across..."nowhere in the Bible is there any reference to the Virgin Mary as being man’s “Co- redeemer.” The prophet Isaiah, when writing about Jesus Christ, said the following: “And thou shalt know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer , the mighty One of Jacob.” (Isaiah 60: 16). In the New Testament, the apostles Paul and Peter each made poignant statements when referring to the price that was paid and the blood that was shed for man’s redemption. Paul said: “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God [not Mary] in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.” And Peter tells us what the purchase price was: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold… But with the precious blood of Christ , as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” (I Cor. 6: 19, 20; I Pet. 1: 18, 19). There can be, then, only one Redeemer— Jesus Christ, the One Who paid the ransom price of His life’s blood, thus giving up an infinite life for a lost human race. Secondly, how can Mary be our “Mediator” when the Bible explicitly warns: “Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name [than that of Jesus Christ— see verse 10] under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved ” and “For there is one God, and one mediator [not two] between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”? (Acts 4: 12; I Timothy 2: 5). Obviously, Jesus is the only Being qualified to be mankind’s Mediator. And thirdly, would the mother of Jesus ever claim to be our “Advocate” when I John 2: 1 says: “And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous ”? If the true Virgin Mary were alive, would she contradict the words of her Son?"Is the Virgin Mary Dead or Alive? Chapter 4 - Steps to Life

    We know Mary was a good woman and highly favored among women, but where does it say she is given the power or title to be co-mediatrix and co-redemtrix since Christ is the only way to the Father and He alone is our Redeemer and Mediator.

    So if Mary is dead and buried in her grave, who is this 'Queen of Heaven' then......
     
  3. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    I did a search and there seems to be hundreds if not thousands of Catholic churchs and other Catholic entities that are named with some variation of the 'queen of heaven'.
    Some may question whether Catholics really call her the Queen of Heaven, well read what society thinks and you decide:

    "Among all the women who have ever lived, the mother of Jesus Christ is the most celebrated, the most venerated... Among Roman Catholics, the Madonna is recognized not only as the Mother of God, but also, according to modern Popes, as the Queen of the Universe, Queen of Heaven, Seat of Wisdom, and even the Spouse of the Holy Spirit." (Time Magazine, "Handmaid or Feminist?", December 30, 1991, p. 62-66).

    Most Catholics would agree with this and have no issue to refer to the Virgin Mary as the Queen of Heaven, so is it really a reference to Mary. Let us look in Scripture.

    Jeremiah 7:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
    17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
    18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
    19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

    In this section of Jeremiah, God is telling Israel why He is angry with them, basically informing them as to the charges against them. Notice that God is very angry that these people are preparing to worship the Queen of Heaven. He is saying that this worship of the Queen of Heaven is "provoking" Him to anger!

    Jeremiah 44:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
    16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.
    17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
    18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
    19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

    Here, we see that the people are defiantly refusing to obey God, and are continuing to worship this Queen of Heaven.

    Jeremiah 44:24-25 King James Version (KJV)
    24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the Lord, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt:
    25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

    We see that God has seen that the people are going to worship this Queen of Heaven no matter what He says. In the verses after, God tells them to go ahead with their rebellion, because He is going to totally destroy them.

    The question, then becomes even more important, who is this 'Queen of Heaven' which the Israelite's were worshiping, that provoked God to such anger?
     
  4. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Lets see...
    "Question: "Who is the Queen of Heaven?"

    Answer:
    The phrase queen of heaven appears in two passages of the Bible, both in the book of Jeremiah. The first passage deals with the things the Israelites were doing that provoked the Lord to anger. Entire families were involved in idolatry. The children gathered wood, and the men used it to build altars to worship false gods. The women were engaged in kneading dough and baking cakes of bread for the “Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18). This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups. She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech. The motivation of women to worship Ashtoreth stemmed from her reputation as a fertility goddess, and, as the bearing of children was greatly desired among women of that era, worship of this “queen of heaven” was rampant among pagan civilizations. Sadly, it became popular among the Israelites as well.

    The second passage that refers to the queen of heaven is Jeremiah 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy.

    It is unclear where the idea that Ashtoreth was a “consort” of Yahweh originated, but it’s easy to see how the blending of paganism that exalts a goddess with the worship of the true King of heaven, Yahweh, can lead to the combining of God and Ashtoreth. And since Ashtoreth worship involved sexuality (fertility rites and temple prostitution), the resulting relationship, to the depraved mind, would naturally be one of a sexual nature. Clearly, the idea of the “queen of heaven” as the consort or paramour of the King of heaven is idolatrous and unbiblical."
    "Who is the Queen of Heaven? | GotQuestions.org
     
  5. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Now Catholics know they have a problem as scripturally they have nothing to base this on, so they come up with something not really biblical, but out of left field, motherhood...

    "Mary’s title as “Queen of Heaven and Earth” is a great scandal to many non-Catholic Christians. After all, the Bible doesn’t mention anything about there being a queen in God’s kingdom. All this royal attention Catholics give to Mary—whether it’s singing “Hail, holy queen enthroned above” or portraying Mary in statues and paintings with a crown on her head—seems to many non-Catholics to detract from the royalty of Christ, who alone is King of Kings. Besides, how could Mary be a queen, since she is not the wife of the Jesus but only his mother?

    One biblical theme sheds light on these questions and serves as a key for unlocking the mystery of Mary’s queenship: the Old Testament tradition of the “queen mother” in the Davidic kingdom."....Is Mary’s Queenship Biblical?
     
  6. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    We can check who are currently using this title Queen of Heaven and for whom they use it.
    One day, I was driving by Buffalo, New York, and noticed a school named < Queen of Heaven School> in West Seneca, NY. Thereafter I have noticed many Catholic schools use the title of Queen of Heaven designated for Mary. Catholics pray to Mary from millions of places all over the world. It means that Catholics believe Mary is everywhere, Omni-present, and understand all the languages of the world and memorize all the prayers of the Catholics and can convey the prayers to God which can be possible only when Mary is Omniscient and Omni-Potent.
    Even if RCC denies they worship Mary as their goddess, virtually they believe Mary is Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent.
     
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  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    According to scripture, it is the "bride" of Christ, the real 'Queen of Sheba (7)':


    Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    who (Jesus) being the King of Kings and "King of heaven" (Daniel 4:37), makes His bride (His people, which make up the inhabitants of The City) the real "queen" thereof.
     
  8. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, that the title was not used till centuries after, as they knew the Queen of Heaven, was a pagan goddess worshipped from antiquity .

    In 431 A.D. the Catholic Church introduces the worship of Mary. The Council at Ephesus affirmed that Mary was the bearer of Jesus as “man and God”.
    Theotokos: How the Mother Goddess became Mary

    In 1854 the Roman Catholic Church introduce the “Immaculate conception of Mary”.
    4 Catholic Beliefs About Mary That Protestants Reject

    In 1950 the Roman Catholic Church introduces the Assumption of Mary. Mariology Archives - Vatican Files
    https://yorkspace.library.yorku.ca/...onescu_Dissertation_Manuscript.pdf?sequence=2

    Here is a few sites to check on this issue...

    Astarte | ancient deity

    Mary

    The Mystery of the Black Madonna ⋆ The Firmament Record
     
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ'


    I will start and most likely end here

    Galatians 4:26

    The Jerusalem from above, she is our mother
     
  10. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Yes, Gal 4:26 says Jerusalem is our mother, not Mary.
    Jerusalem may reflect Sarah.
    22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

    23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

    24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

    25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

    The FREEWOMAN is Sarah, not Mary in this context.
    We should not make ourselves stupid in interpreting the Bible.

    Matthew 12:

    46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

    47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

    48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

    49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!


    50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


    Mary is not the mother of the church.
    Mary was not the biological mother of Jesus Christ, but the Surrogate Mother.
    Jesus didn't have 50% genes from Mary and 50% from Holy Spirit.
    Jesus has His own 100% genes.

    Heb 7:
    3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

    Both Melchizedek and Son of God are very similar in the fact that both of them had NO MOTHER


    Don't waste time for Goddess Worship


    Eliyahu
     
  11. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Nothing of the sort, the Bible says she gave birth to Jesus, not to His followers. Need to keep to what the scriptures says, not some false doctrine or tradition.
     
  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Huh?

    I posted a Bible quote
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Pretty simple Jewish custom The Queen is not the King's wife, Its his mother.

    Jesus Christ being King, Makes Mary the Queen. Its PAGAN ideas that think her being Queen somehow equate to a supremacy. Same goes for the stone age idea that a Mother is superior to their children.
     
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