Featured The KJV and The Deity of Jesus Christ

I don't see any problem with it at all after having read the AV for many years now.

I also remember, as a very young believer when I first read this passage, that it looked like it could possibly be saying that there were two People being mentioned.
But as I studied further, it became very apparent to me that this passage is referring to Jesus Christ who is God, and who is the Saviour.

" For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." ( Titus 2:11-14 ).

The Greek here clearly says, " the great God and Saviour of us Jesus annointed":

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit2.pdf

My Bible doesn't have a comma after "God".
As you can see in the above, neither does what I pulled off BibleGateway.

I appreciate the quote as I know that you're just trying to be helpful, but I can decide for myself how it reads;
Also, I hold that anyone who is saved and is reading this, can decide for themselves without having to consult a scholar's quotes.
As far as I am aware, the Bible makes no mention of having to rely on other men for our understanding and belief of His words under the new covenant.

Rather, it tells us as believers:

" according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." ( 2 Peter 1:3-4 ).

Please see 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 and 1 John 2:20-27 as well.

 

Again, I see no problem here with the translation:

" Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:" ( 2 Peter 1:1 ).

As before, I have no comma in my Bible... and I understand it to mean that Jesus Christ is both my God and My Saviour...

Also as before, I thank you for your reference to Granville Sharp ( I have no recollection of who he is or was, just as I have no recollection of a Dr. George Winer in my travels around the internet or in the churches I was once a member of ), but again, I trust the Lord for my understanding of His words, not men.

 

Because your post-1900 edition of the KJV does not have a comma after God at Titus 2:12 is not evidence that refutes the fact that many and perhaps all pre-1743 editions of the KJV did have a comma after God.

The 1611 edition of the KJV had a comma after God at Titus 2:13 [the great God, and our Saviour Jesus Christ]. The first KJV edition printed in America in 1782 and KJV editions printed at Oxford in 1774, 1784, 1788, 1791, and 1795 still have a comma after God at Titus 2:13.

F. H. A. Scrivener observed: “In regard to weightier matters, the comma put by 1611 after “God” in Titus 2:13 is fitly removed by 1769 modern, that ‘the great God and our Saviour’ may be seen to be joint predicates of the same Divine person” (Authorized Edition, p. 87). The 1743 and 1760 Cambridge editions edited by F. S. Parris had removed the comma at Titus 2:13 before the 1769 Oxford followed them. The 1762 and 1769 Cambridge editions still had a comma after God at Titus 2:13.

 

Makes you wonder what image was man created after when he was done in His image, doesn't it? That should give you pause.

Did you know that men had seen God in the O.T. ? Jesus said that it wasn't the Father they had seen

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. KJV

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV

Jesus did say that the scriptures & Moses testify of Him & Jesus said Abraham had seen Him.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life..... 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? ~ KJV

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. ~ KJV

I believe that day was in Genesis 18:1 when Abraham entreated the Lord & His companions to stay & eat & drink with him because that was the day He told him Sara would have a son, but His other appearance to Abraham was Genesis 17:1.

Also the Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24 & Jacob wrestled with the Lord face to face & lived in Genesis 32:24-30.

Jesus told His disciples that one day He will not need to mediate between them & the Father for in that day, they will ask Him directly as they will see the Father plainly.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. ~ KJV

So when I read the creation of man account being how man was asked to be created in "our" image & after "our likeness". The Father has a celestial body as Jesus did before His incarnation so that when the Father permits with the Spirit of God in compliance to the Father's will in agreeing to the Son's request, man was created in the His image as created by the One God.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. KJV

I believe God is a Spirit is Jesus referring to God's omnipresence to the Samaritan woman at the well in answering her question as to where to go to worship God the Father at; the Temple at Jerusalem or the mountains as her people does. Jesus was conveying the new reality that is come where believers do not need to go to a place to worship God the Father at but they can worship Him anywhere in spirit & in truth. Jesus was not saying that God is only a Spirit, but conveying that God will no longer be confined to a place to be worshiped at if you read in context for why Jesus said that.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Did you know that "elohiym" is the plural form of God in Hebrew? As the angelic terms seraphim & cherubim are plural to seraph & cherub as singular, so is elohiym is plural of ''elowahh' ; "gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;... "

Makes one needing the wisdom of the Lord to understand this, but there are 3 Witnesses as in 3 Persons in the One God..

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.~ KJV

 

As I see it, the Jehovah's Witnesses have used the Critical text in their translation of their current Bible ( The New World Translation ), and it is no more trustworthy for the believer in Jesus Christ than most of the modern ones in English today.

I disagree.
Based on the Received Text that I have seen in various places, the translators of the AV did very excellent work, and to me they managed to carry the Greek over into the English of their day as closely as possible, give the nuances of it.

Again I disagree.
To me, you've attempted to show through a few passages ( that I believe you've misunderstood ) that possibly may have punctuation in some copeis of it and not others, that the AV translators were remiss in their work.

In addition, I myself do not hold that translations in any language ( unless God uses a man to do the work ) are perfect.
I also hold that the very words of the AV, while not directly inspired by the Lord, are His inspired words if these two factors come into play:

1) Use of the crrect and preserved manuscripts and other preserved witnesses to estanblish which Greek and Hebrew words are indeed His words.
2) Use of a very strict and faithful method of translation that treats every word of God as being sacred and not to be misrepresented...in this case, a strict adherence to Formal Equivalency and keeping away from delving into Dynamic Equivalency at all costs.

 

There is doubt to me.
I'm sorry if you do not see it that way.

In fact, when I read it now, I have no doubt whatsoever that it is speaking of the same Person.
Jesus Christ.

I know of no one who studies from their Bible today that uses the original 1611 edition.

Respectfully,
Your OP title is, "The KJV and The Deity of Jesus Christ.", not "The original AV of 1611 and the Deity of Jesus Christ.".
Your first post is below:

This makes no mention of the original 1611 edition.

However, I now see, reading further into your first post, that you did in fact mention the 1611 edition in it.
My mistake, sir, and I thank you for your correction.

 

Concerning 2 Peter 1:1 in his multi-volume commentary, KJV-only author David Sorenson wrote: “Though it is not quite as evident in English, in the Received Text, the phrase literally reads, ‘the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ’” (p. 228).

 

A. T. Robertson wrote: “In 2 Peter 1:11 and 3:18, the pronoun ’our’ comes after ’Lord,’ but that makes no difference in the idiom. It is ’our Lord and Saviour,’ and it is so translated in the English versions. But we have precisely the same idiom in 2 Peter 1:1, ’our God and Saviour Jesus Christ’” (The Minister, p. 63). Robertson asserted: “The idiom compels the translation, ’our God and Saviour Jesus Christ” (p. 64).
Concerning 2 Peter 1:1, Ralph Wardlaw noted in 1815: “An instance of construction, in every respect the same, occurs at the eleventh verse of this same chapter” (Discourses, p. 75). Wardlaw asserted: “It is just as improper to render the words in the first verse, ‘through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,‘ (unless the appellations ‘God and our Saviour’ be understood as both connecting with ‘Jesus Christ’) as it would be to render those in this verse [1:11] ‘in the kingdom of the Lord and our Saviour Jesus Christ’” (p. 76).

Do some oppose the same measures and principles being applied to 2 Peter 1:1 as would be applied to 2 Peter 1:11?

 

Eh, yeah right. I have more than once referred to the KJB's rendering of Titus 2:13 to prove that Jesus and God are one...that's precisely why that verse is changed in so many versions.

You need to lay off that obsession with proving the KJB wrong, because you thereby keep unwittingly confessing its truth.

 

So the Kjv was correct when 4 times they translated the Holy Spirit as being an "IT?"

 

o all of them had it right here, and the 1611 translators did not?