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Featured Did Pharaoh's Magicians Really Change Their Rods into Real Serpents?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. Yes, they changed their rods into real serpents through the power of the devil.

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. Yes, they changed their rods into real serpents through God's working a miracle through them.

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. No, there was some kind of trickery that they did to make it look like they did a miracle.

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  4. No, demons supernaturally substituted real serpents in place of their rods.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Not sure.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other. Please specify in a comment.

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  1. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    I am absolutely premillennial, and my view is not just based on the book of Revelation.

    In any case, the book of Acts, which is divine revelation of events that took place after the binding that you claim Matt. 12:29 teaches occurred, shows that Satan and his demons continued to be very active long after Christ had ascended to heaven.

    Moreover, the rest of the NT also warns believers about the activities of Satan and his demons. Even if we do not look at Revelation, there is no Bible evidence that Satan is bound in our day.
     
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It's like their Bibles don't have these passages:

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

    I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

    Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

    And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20
     
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    There's many such passages, but, 'there's none so blind as those that will not see', and the premil sensationalists are as blind as they come:

    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24:34

    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13:30

    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21:32

    And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3.1-2

    From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4.17

    And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2.40

    And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3:10

    But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10:23

    Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28

    Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. This saying therefore went forth among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, that he should not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Jn 21:22- 23

    For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10:37

    Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23: 34-36

    But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Mt 26:64

    And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9:1

    John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, thoroughly to cleanse his threshing-floor, and to gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire. Lu 3:17

    Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. I Cor 10.11

    Let your forbearance be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Phil 4:5

    hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

    else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:26

    who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake, 1 Pet 1:20

    But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4.7

    For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Pet 4:17

    And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. 2 Pet 2.3

    Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2: 18

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

    I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

    Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

    And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20
     
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  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I know, because it surprises you to learn that Satan has been bound.

    So did the operation of the Temple, though its standing and the execution of its rites was antichrist, Hebrews 9:8 .

    Christ very clearly said, Satans house can't be spoiled until he is first bound. Your argument is with Christ. Not me.
     
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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Satan was 'kicked out' here:
    17 And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject unto us in thy name.
    18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven. Lu 10

    His time on earth was short:
    12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12

    He was bound here:
    1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, Rev 20
     
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  6. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

    Kind of hard for a serpent to eat a mere "sleight of hand". Noting that the "rods" are gone is key. It's the rod that goes down that gets eaten.
    Also, if all that the magicians could do was mere sleight of hand, the fearful effect on them would likely have been greater.
    The fact that they go "ho-hum" is indication that they could do the same.
    As noted by another, when it came to life from inorganic matter (lice from dust), only then do they recognize something greater than them.
    A number of Bible passages teach us that devils can, and will yet, do miracles.
    Lucifer is no mere Chris Angel or David Copperfield.
     
    #26 George Antonios, Feb 18, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe the "magicians" had some kinda snake that would stiffen up so it appeared to be a rod. After all, there's no account of surprise when they did it in fronta Moe.

    The magicians were able to turn water into "blood" by some kinda chemical or red dye they had, & were able to supposedly produce frogs upon the land. But they couldn't strike the dust on the ground & turn it into lice. They admitted that plague was the finger of God at work.

    God intended to impress Himself upon that Pharaoh by stages. His magicians were able to appear to duplicate God's first miracles, but, beginning with the lice, He did miracles the magicians couldn't copy. And they kept growing in intensity, culminating in the deaths of all the Egyptian firstborn sons, at least up til a certain age, or having become fathers themselves. But God hardened Pharaoh's heart again after he'd let the Israelis go, despite the great devastation that'd hit all Egypt except Goshen,so that he led his army after them, so God could show him his greatest miracle at that time, the parting of the Reed Sea so the Israelis could cross it on dry ground.

    But I believe God at first performed miracles that the magicians could dupe, so Pharaoh's heart became hardened against letting Israel go, then, shattered that heart of stone.

    To me, the most-unforgettable line in the movie "The Ten Commandments" is when Ramses(Yul Brynner), finally broken by the loss of his charioteer corps, says to Nefretiri, "HIS God...IS God !"
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think was either power of Satan allowed to be at work here by God, or else was like drugged snakes that came to full life!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Either way, slight of hand trick, or real satanic magic here, still was showing to us the power of Yahweh crushed that of the other "god"
     
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  10. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Why didn't God allow the magicians to continue their imitations. They had 3 strikes and were out, but Pharoah's heart was hardened after each of the plagues.
    On another note, that was also one of my favorite lines from "The Ten Commandments". Classic!
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Liked in the movie when Pharaoh decreed what the final judgement would be himself!
     
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  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    We see God hardened Pharaoh's heart against letting Israel go. I believe He wanted to show Egypt His power & glorify Himself. Remember, God has some love for Egypt, as He showed in Isaiah 19. He punished Egypt as He did Israel, only not-as-severely. I'd say that's cuz Egypt had some, but not general, knowledge of Him, thru Joseph, while Israel was without excuse.
     
  13. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not surprised because he is not bound. Both Peter and Paul teach in the Epistles that Christians are continual targets of Satan and his demons, which proves that he is not bound.

    Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Other. The magicians of Egypt did in like manner with their enchantments. They cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents (the rods, not the men).
     
  15. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    What does this mean? How is this different than the first choice?
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not know that it was the power of the devil. I suppose since it obviously was not of God it would be, but not attributing their actions to the Devil is how my answer differes. It could have been a trick as well (perhaps the rods were always really snakes). I dunno.
     
  17. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Considering what else Scripture says about practitioners of the occult makes it clear that any supernatural works that they do are done through demonic power.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Either that or trickery. I can't say which is the correct view because Scripture does not say (I can't with good conscience exceed Scripture).

    Either way (whether demonic or a trick) God proves Himself more powerful.
     
  19. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    It's worth considering that a parallel passage profoundly and explicitly states that a human being will give life to an inanimate image in the future:

    Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    By comparing Scripture with Scripture, I believe that we have good reason to hold that the magicians in Exod. 7 could and really did change their rods into real serpents through their being empowered by the devil.
     
  20. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    The text says the magicians of Egypt did "in like manner" as Aaron and their rods became serpents. So, yes, real serpents like Aaron's, though not as powerful.

    In like manner:
    Aaron cast down his rod | they cast down every man his rod
    it [Aaron's rod] became a serpent | they [their rods] became serpents

    Nothing in the text directs us to suspect their rods did not actually become serpents in the same way Aaron's did.
     
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