1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Those practicing righteousness are the righteous!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Bro Glen, then what are the verses in the OP for?

    Initially, God does everything for us.
    Then, it's up to us to do our part.
    E.G. remember the call to do "our reasonable service" in Romans 12:1?
     
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is for me.;)
    God the Father forgives born again believers of all their sins:

    " And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
    ( Colossians 2:13-14 ).

    Not just the ones they committed before they believed.
    You may wish to read the context of that again:

    " And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
    6 and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
    7 and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
    10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
    11 for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. ."
    ( 2 Peter 1:8-11 ).

    This passage describes a believer that has forgotten that he was cleansed of His old ( God no longer looks at them ) sins...
    All of them as Colossians 2:13-14 states.

    It encourages them to give diligence to make their calling and election sure, Samuels.
    Do you know what "calling" and "election" are?
     
    #22 Dave G, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks, but again, I already have a Bible which I read most every day.

    It tells me that the key to eternal life is not "in the New Testament" ( i.e. through studying His word )...
    It's in a Person, the Son of the Living God, Jesus Christ ( John 14:6 ).
    The Scriptures bear witness of Him.

    He tells us to study His word, not to know Him, but to know more about Him ( and to rightly divide His words, 2 Timothy 2:15 ) and because we already know Him.

    Finally, I'm not a "denominational Christian".
    I'm a child of the living God, saved by His grace and mercy.
    Spiritual understanding is something granted by God through the new birth and the Holy Spirit's indwelling ( Matthew 13:10-11, 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 ).
    The Bible does not lead to it, God does ( Proverbs 9:10 ) through His power, and using His word.
    See James 1:18.

    Eternal life is to know God and His Son ( John 17:2 )...
    It is a spirit-to-spirit relationship, not something that someone can "jump start" by reading God's word.
    The Lord does the "jump-starting" by calling His elect through His word and by the power of the Spirit.

    Which leads me to a question...

    Have you been "called", Samuels?
    It happens all-of-a-sudden-like, when someone is sitting in front of the preaching of God's word and they realize that His words are true and that they are a sinner in need of a Saviour...
    And they believe on Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

    I've never forgotten that moment;
    It was in May of 1978.
    No man is open to God's word unless they are "of God" ( John 8:43-47 ).
    Outside of God opening the heart ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ) we will not hear His words.

    Again, may He bless you greatly in your studies, my friend.:)
     
    #23 Dave G, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2021
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian


    The reason I asked you if you believe you can regain your salvation is important; if you believe that a saved person can lose their salvation and their name is removed from the book of life and the Holy Spirit is removed from them, then fine, but most people who believe in freewill and prevenient grace believe that all you have to do is repent to get your salvation back so you fall in and out of salvation and if you're lucky you die while you're in a state of repentance. It is my understanding though that per Hebrews 6:6, that if you fall away you can't get your repentance back. This in a way is comforting to me believe it or not because there's been many times that I have been worthy of damnation as a Christian but yet my name was never removed from the book of life. That makes God sovereign over your salvation because you can't remove your name from His book… I don't recommend it but you can sin all your life but unless God wants to remove your name from His Book it's going to stay there, you can beg him to remove your name from the book of life but it's His choice. The book of life was written before the foundation of the world with your name in it, it had everyone's name in it because it's a book of creation, so if your name is removed from that book it can't be put back in because it was written a long time ago. Hopefully this won't send the conversation in a different direction because you don't agree with me about the book of life, but there isn't a place that says "he who overcomes I will write his name in the book of life", God says to he overcomes I will not blot his name out of the book of life meaning it was already in there, Saved or unsaved. Whether or not you believe what I say about the book of life you have to agree that until your name is removed from it there is still hope for you, when a Christian is told to repent it means repentance can help them in their walk, it doesn't mean repentance puts them back into Salvation. You have a misunderstanding of what happens at the cross. Hebrews 10:26 says that if we sin willfully there is no more sacrifice for sin, have you ever sinned willfully lately? Do you think that at that point you are no longer under the blood and have to have the blood of Christ on you again? The blood of Christ was spilled at the cross where all your sins were paid for if you need more blood from Jesus I'm sorry for you He's not on the cross anymore and He's not bleeding anymore… Abraham and all the patriarchs died with the promise of salvation but they had to wait for their sins to be covered by the blood of Jesus on the cross. All of their sins were paid for at the cross just like all of ours are paid for at the cross, they look forward we look behind.
    Luckily for us, Hebrews 10:27 describes trying to re-sacrifice Christ but if you go back to Hebrews 10:17 you will see that once the sacrifice is applied to you God doesn't remember your sin anymore and there is no sacrifice for sin needed. In the space of 10 versus God says there is no more sacrifice for sin the first time in a positive way and the second time in a negative way I believe in the first
     
    #24 Titus Tarnum, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  5. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    It appears that DaveG and Titus have no need for 1 John 1:9
    as a means of Jesus' cleansing them from their recent sin(s).

    It appears that they believe they have been forgiven
    for ALL of their sins (past, present, and future).

    Thus, and therefore, they believe they are free to sin and still go to heaven.

    BTW, they must also ignore and reject ALL of the Lord's dire warnings
    in the NT about the possibility of losing their salvation.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does the Spirit of Christ indwell the believer, Samuel? If so, will the Spirit be so weak as to not convict the children of God regarding their sin?

    The problem is you are acting as though the person whom God redeems does all the work by his own, apart from God working in them. You actually sound like a Roman Catholic who would say they are justified by faith plus works, especially the work of partaking in the sacraments to maintain salvation.

    Why do you live and teach as though God's Spirit is non-existent?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God sees as righteous and declares righteous those whom Christ rendered obedience for, for its written Rom 5:19
    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    How does thou knowest how I liveth? ... Are you out of your mind?
    I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit (with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues).
    And you think I don't know all about the Holy Spirit.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
    ~ Galatians 3:3
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, I think you know nothing about the Holy Spirit and live by your flesh.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Those Galatians were trying to ADD some of the works of the old law to the finished work of Christ.

    Me, I'm trying to convince people to obey Jesus' commandments. For example ...
    John 14
    15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

    And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father
    23 If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;
    and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
    24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words ...

    Do you think loving Jesus is necessary to go to heaven?
    Ergo, what about obeying His commandments?
     
    #31 Samuels, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  12. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Please understand that one's initial condition after first being saved can be altered.
    E.G. Romans 6:16-19
    slave of sin >>> eternal death
    slave of obedience >>> righteousness
    slave of righteousness >>> holiness

    Does God FORCE any BAC to NOT be a slave of sin?
    Does God FORCE any BAC to be a slave of obedience?
    Does God FORCE any BAC to be a slave of righteousness?
    Don't all BACs have free will?
    If a BAC chooses to be a slave of the right thing(s), is this works-salvation?
     
    #32 Samuels, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sorry, I dont know what you talking about friend !
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is the Sabbath included among them to be kept?
     
  15. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Dis is just another one of my favorite passages ...

    Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
    “Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
    has made us (BACs) free,
    and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage
    … You (BACs) have become estranged from Christ
    … you (BACs) have fallen from grace.”


    To be estranged from Christ and fallen from grace
    means you have lost your salvation.
     
  16. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Then, you are in bad bad shape, friend.
    But, thou artest NOT alone, friend.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    By never having Christ in you. 2 Corinthians 13:5, Hebrews 13:5.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope, paul was stating that if one wants to get yoked up again in the law, then fallen from grace, in the sense cannot have freedom while chained up like that, but still saved!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you realize that it is your theology that is attempting to put a yoke of bondage on believers? You are the one attempting to estrange believers from Christ. You are the person believers must be wary of because you are attempting to bring them back under slavery to sin.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Peter was smart when he stated that do not seek to put us back under that yoke of bondage that even the Jews could not keep!
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...