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Featured Ezekiel 21:27

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Apr 21, 2021.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The KJV reads,25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,26 Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.27I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him."

    Now, what is the "it"? The throne(rulership) of David, as the preceding verses show. It was held at the time by Zedekiah.

    We know Zedekiah's reign was ended by the Babylonians, and many believe this was the end of the throne of David, as God had DQ'd Coniah, son of Jehoiachim, from holding that throne, in Jeremiah 22. But GOD had said Dave's throne would be established FOREVER.

    So, WHAT HAPPENED to Dave's throne?

    Let's go back to V. 26-"EXALT HIM THAT IS LOW & abase him that is high. We know the high were abased, Zedekiah & Coniah. But who was the low that was exalted?

    Luke 3:31 mentions a son of David named Nathan in Jesus' earthly genealogy. (He was NOT the prophet Nathan.) We do not know what became of this Nathan, but in those days, when a king had many sons, he often sent them to other lands with a large sum of money & a retinue of retainers so that king could install the son he wanted as his successor. Evidently, Nathan was one such son, as he's not mentioned in the Old Testament.

    But God said He'd establish David's throne thru SOLOMON. So, it's likely that at some time one of Nathan's descendants married into Solly's family, as Nathan, not Solly, is mentioned in Luke's genealogy of Jesus.

    Now, the throne was to be overturned THREE times. The first occurred when the babs overthrew Zed. So, where did the throne go?

    A good candidate is-IRELAND. Some ancient Israelis, likely Jews, were known to have settled in what's now Ireland in roughly 800 BC, & their chief might well have been a descendant of Solomon's & of Nathan's, thus having a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis. (this is all conjecture, of course, as we don't know that much about those ancient "Irish".)

    It IS known that a ruler of the early irish married a daughter of the king of the Picts, the early Scottish, & their line continued to rule for a long time.m (It included Fergusons, etc.) After that, the line in Ireland changed. That could've been the 2nd overturn. And we know that King James VI of Scotland becake King James I of England & VI of Scotland, & his descendants have held the British throne ever since, although mixed with Hannovers, Windsors, etc. KJ could'be been the 3rd overturn. And God said it'd be overturned no more til Jesus came.

    Now, while the above is largely conjecture, GOD'S WORD MUST COME TO PASS, & He declared THREE overturns of David's throne. And Jesus is to return and occupy David's throne. There's not one peep of Scripture saying He took it with Him when He returned to heaven. And Jeremiah 33:17 says there'll always be a man to sit on the throne of the House of Israel. repeated with emphasis from God in Jeremiah 33:20-21, & He promised multiple Davidic RULERS in Jeremiah 33:26. Remember, Jerry was writing about the time Zedekiah was about to be booted by the Babs, so God wanted him & his readers to know Dave's throne was not finished with the end of Zed.

    BTW, I AM NOT A "BRITISH ISRAELITE" ! !

    Anyone else have any thoughts on the Ezekiel passages? Several other English Bible translations apply V. 27 to the city of Jerusalem, but context clearly shows it's about David's throne. I believe it's pretty plain Dave's throne is still here, with its occupant ruling over Israelis, not necessarily Jews, somewhere. That throne may be called Chancellorship, Prime Ministership, Presidency, etc. but its occupant will be the de-facto ruler of some Israelis.
     
    #1 robycop3, Apr 21, 2021
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  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    The scepter will not depart from Judah, Nor the lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh come, And to him will be the obedience of peoples. Gen 49:10

    And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; Matt 1:3
    And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first. And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah. Gen 38:27-30
    Why are they both spoken of is this genealogy. Who/What is it a genealogy thereof?

    Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jer 1:5
    Then Ishmael carried away captive all the residue of the people that were in Mizpah, even the king's daughters, and all the people that remained in Mizpah, whom Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had committed to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam: and Ishmael the son of Nethaniah carried them away captive, and departed to go over to the Ammonites. Jer 41:10
    Even men, and women, and children, and the king's daughters, and every person that Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had left with Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Jeremiah the prophet, and Baruch the son of Neriah. Jer 43:6

    He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Luk1 1:32

    An overturn, overturn, overturn, I make it, Also this hath not been till the coming of Him, Whose is the judgment, and I have given it. Ezek 21:27 YLT
    Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31

    Simon has related how God first visited to take out of the nations a people for his name. Acts 15:15 (Giving them the first fruit of the Spirit. See V 8 And the heart-knowing God bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit as to us also,)
    After these things, calling out of Judah and the nations
    I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: Acts 15:16

    V 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

    Where all is the tabernacle of David?
     
    #2 percho, Apr 21, 2021
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  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    First, many people associate the word tabernacle with a house of worship, or the tent used as a temple by Israel in the wilderness. The word originally meant 'tent', but it came to mean an ordinary home. (Obsolete language is part of why I don't use the KJV too much.) It actually means the "House of David", or the body of people descended from him.

    We don't know where it is today, but it IS here! We must remember that through all this, there was ALWAYS a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis somewhere, although that ruler likely didn't know he was descended from David nor did those he was ruling know they were Israelis, as the national IDs of the 10 tribes has been lost to them for a long time.

    Buit their IDs are known to GOD. He will make them known in His own timing.

    And when Jesus returns to rule the world, He will take over the throne of David, wherever it now is & move it to Jerusalem, & make it known it IS the throne of David.

    But where that throne now is, I don't know. I only know it's here, as God said it would be. In the OP, I presented some evidence that it's now the British throne, (at the risk of being called a "British Israelite", which I am NOT) and I'm hoping to see the thoughts of others on that theory.
     
    #3 robycop3, Apr 22, 2021
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  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Here's another Bible verse for consideration on this subject:

    2 Samuel 7:10Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously,

    At the time God told this to David thru the prophet Nathan, Israel was solidly in the "Promised Land" , having subdued the Philistines & other old enemies, & was in no danger of being moved. And God had appointed the "Promised Land" for them long before.

    But God said He WOULD appoint them a place where HE would PLANT them, where they would move no more nor be oppressed by their enemies. They already had some of the Promised land, so WHERE COULD THAT NEW LAND BE????????????

    Remember God told Jacob in Gen. 35:11 that "a nation & a company of nations shall come out of you." And later He assigned the rulership of Israel to Judah & vast material wealth to Joseph thru Ephraim & Manasseh, his sons from his Egyptian princess wife. While the rulership is seen easily enough, WHAT ABOUT THE BIRTHRIGHT ????

    God's birthright was originally given to Abraham, who at god's direction, passed it to Isaac, who intended to pass it to Esau, but, at God's intervention, passed it to jacob, who, at God's direction passed it to Joseph's some Ephraim & Manasseh. Now, their tribes never became all that rich or powerful before the Assyrian conquest. And we don't see the birthright being passed any more. So, WHAT BECAME OF IT ? ?

    Now, the BRITISH EMPIRE was the largest , richest, & most-powerful empire ever til now, occupying almost a quarter of the earth's land mass. And the USA broke the yoke of that empire, and, being occupied largely by people descended from the British, became the richest, most-powerful nation of all til now. Together, the USA & British Empire controlled some 80% of ALL the earth's resources! Could THEY be Jacob's nation & company of nations & the inheritors of the birthright when it was finally manifested?

    Also, the USA had the MOST professing Christians, the MOST churches, & the most Christians & churches per capita, & the MOST copies of the Bible.

    ALL THESE FACTS ARE NOT WITHOUT SIGNIFICANCE IN AN OVERVIEW OF GOD'S MASTER PLAN ! !

    (Apparently, He intends to keep the Jews in Jerusalem & the "Promised Land" There are still many Jews thruout the world, with almost as many here as in Israel !)
     
    #4 robycop3, Apr 22, 2021
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  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Exodus II

    Hard times ahead.
     
    #5 percho, Apr 22, 2021
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    11:25,26
     
    #6 percho, Apr 22, 2021
  7. liafailrock

    liafailrock Member
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    I believe in the overturning of the throne of King David to the other nations and the migrations of (lost) Israel. However, the reason is not so much to glorify them, but to show God's faithfulness when all else appeared lost. I'm sure Satan was laughing when the Israelites were dispersed to the point they became Gentiles and forgotten their identity just to try to make God's promises to no effect. You see this same mentality with the political land of Israel where they are all trying to rewrite history so that the Jews (Judah) do not have claim and they want to disperse them the same way. Nevertheless, the Lord used their dispersion to become the same nations that traditionally spread the gospel of the Kingdom and took a complete clusterflock and turned it into a powerful witness to proclaim the Coming King. That's my skinny on the topic. In the beginning I thought I had to broadcast it but it was not well received. I realize now I need not do that. Now I can just feel at peace knowing what has happened and what will happen while others flail their arms in dread and fear trying to figure out why this world is the way it is. It irritates them when the likes of me can be at peace and just smirk. But they are the ones rejecting prophecy and making life difficult on themselves.
     
    #7 liafailrock, Sep 23, 2021
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's good, as one of God's strongest Old Testament is that the throne of David(rulership over at least some Israelis by a descendant of David's) was established FOR EVER. That rulership will be taken over by Jesus when He returns. Today, a descendant of David's is ruling over Israelis somewhere, but that ruler doesn't know he's Dave's descendant, nor do his sublects know they're Israelis. But GOD knows who they are! He will make it known to man when His time arrives for Him to do it.
     
    #8 robycop3, Sep 23, 2021
  9. liafailrock

    liafailrock Member
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    Agreed. I think they once knew, but now it's not politically correct to say one is of the house of David so the newer generations forgotten. Everyone wants to be God's chosen, not realizing that chosen means for a responsibility. It's not about special favors the way this hedonistic world imagines God's chosen.
     
    #9 liafailrock, Sep 23, 2021
  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    David's throne is in Jerusalem, not in Ireland. You are completely misunderstanding the prophecies concerning the seed and the throne of David. There are two main passages where we read about David's throne being established.It is in 2 Sam 7 and all of Psa 89. We find in 2 Sam that it is an eternal throne but there is chastening for disobedience and the throne has been abdicated since the days of Nebuchadnezzar when the "times of the gentiles" began and still continues to this day and will continue until David's greater seed sits upon his throne.

    I will give you excerpts and you can read the context. First from 2nd Sam.

    2 Sam 7:8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
    9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth.
    10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
    11 And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
    12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
    13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
    14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
    15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
    16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

    Psa 89

    27 Also I will make him [my] firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
    28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
    29 His seed also will I make [to endure] for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
    30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
    31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
    32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
    33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
    34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
    35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
    36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and [as] a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

    38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
    39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown [by casting it] to the ground.
    40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
    41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
    42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
    43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
    44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.

    This next quote is very important because it will tell us how long it is cast down to the ground and when it will be built back.

    Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
    13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
    14 Simeon (Peter) hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name (in acts 10).
    15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    16 After this (taking from the gentiles a people for his name) I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    17 That the residue of men (the prophets says that few men are left on the earth) might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    These eternal blessings of Israel concerning the throne of David is not through David himself, but later, through his greater seed. Study these three passages carefully and in their context and you will see that Ireland and the UK has nothing to do with David's throne or his seed.
     
    #10 JD731, Oct 9, 2021
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    You;ve forgotten the plain, simple statement from God that David's throne (rulership over at least some of the Israelis) was to be established FOREVER, beginning with Solomon. And indeed, God chastened some of Dave's descendants who followed the sin path, but God had plainly said He would NOT end Dave's dynasty as He'd done Saul's.

    And God re-iterated that promise to in His words to Jeremiah:

    Jeremiah 33:17 “For thus says the Lord: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; 18 nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’ ”19 And the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, 20 “Thus says the Lord: ‘If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21 then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers. 22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.’ ”

    23 Moreover the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, 24 “Have you not considered what these people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the Lord has chosen, He has also cast them off’? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more be a nation before them.

    25 “Thus says the Lord: ‘If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.’ ”

    This was just before the Babylonians overthrew Zedekiah. And Jerry knew that God had DQ'd Coniah, already a captive in Babylon, & any of his descendants from occupying that throne, but God wanted Jerry to tell the rest of the Jews that Dave's dynasty was NOT over; that His promise still stood, & that there'd always be a descendant of Dave's ruling over Israelis until Jesus takes over that throne forever. And Jesus will do JUST THAT when He returns. Right now, He is the nobleman in His parable who went on a long journey to receive His kingdom.

    So, the FACT is, that somewhere a descendant of David's ruled over some Israelis after the throne of Judah was ended. Remember, God had said He would overturn(not end) the throne 3 times. So there MUST be a descendant of Dave's ruling over some Israelis right now. He doesn't necessarily hafta be a king; he can be a PM, President, Premier, or any other such title. This is ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD, not some man-made fantasy.
     
    #11 robycop3, Oct 10, 2021
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  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Your reasoning is way over the top. One does not need to guess where the throne of David is. It is in Jerusalem, the city of the great King. We have plain scriptures in Psa 89, a psalm that is devoted to the single subject of the Davidic covenant that says the throne is cast down to the ground.

    Israel is reckoned dead by God when they are out of the land of Israel and the nations are their graves. They are not just misplaced.We do not have to guess how God views his people when no descendant of David is sitting on the throne in Jerusalem. We are plainly told his throne is cast down to the ground, but not permanantly. The next person to sit on that throne will be David's greater seed, the glorified Jesus Christ.

    We are told when it will happen and we do not need to guess about that. In Acts 15 it is after God gathers from among the gentiles a people for his name. This is the reason one needs a KJV. You must believe the words you are reading. They are God's words.They are true and logical and reasonable and believable. Therefore, his servants loveth them.

    Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
    14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
    15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?

    Life from the dead is a resurrection.
     
    #12 JD731, Oct 10, 2021
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's not what SCRIPTURE says. I posted verses from Jeremiah 33 for you that say otherwise. God said there'd ALWAYS be a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis. That throne(rulership COULD be in Jerusalem now: I don't know if the present Israeli leadership is a descendant of Dave's or not. But it wasn't there for a long time. And you're forgetting this verse-2 Samuel 7:10Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, At the time God gave those words to Nathan to tell David, the Israelis were living securely in the Promised land, with no outside threats.

    Nonsense. There are more Jews in the USA than in Israel right now. And they are just-as-Jewish as those in Israel. And as for the non-Jewish Israelis, GOD knows who they are. Remember, the 144K witnesses of Revelation will be from every tribe of israel.

    the throne was out of J for a long time, & may not be there now. Yes, Jesus will occupy it, but it's active right now, or else God's word is wrong. I go with God's word being 100% right.

    Your KJVO myth is phony as a Ford Corvette, false as the election-stealing rumor. I demolished it in the "Bible versions & Translations" sub-forum, & I'll do it again for you if you dare debate me over it in that sub-forum. But this is not the forum nor the thread to do it.

    Entirely off-subject. You really need to study Scripture much-more-closely, ask for the HOLY SPIRIT to teach you, believe it literally as possible, & quit listening to quacks who give you false private interps of prophecy & teach you such garbage as the KJVO myth.
     
    #13 robycop3, Oct 10, 2021
  14. liafailrock

    liafailrock Member
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    Actually all, the bible does teach that both king and the people would be exiled and yet the promise of a throne is forever starting with King David. And that's another thing now that I think of it. They are over the house of Israel. Not Judah (the Jews) I am well familiar with Psalm 89. If we read that in context, the writer seems baffled that the throne was cast to the ground when indeed God promised David an eternal throne. And yet he ends the psalm with praise knowing "somehow" God had got this all in his control (as the implication). The covenant of King David the bible describes as a "covenant of salt" which is forever. The same psalmist (as other sections of the bible also state) that this is perpetual "unto all generations". It only fell in Judah (c.f.scripture like Jeremiah 22:30) so in that sense it did fall since there would be nothing in Judah. But falling there is not equivalent to a discontinuation but rather a change in order. This, I believe, would prevent any returning exiles from establishing another monarchy there because it had to be overturned (or overthrown if you like the NKJV) 3 times.
     
    #14 liafailrock, Oct 10, 2021
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Solomon had many sons, as did David. The only ones God DQ'd from occupying David's throne were Coniah & his offspring. Even though Coniah, after 37 years of Babylonian captivity, repented & began to serve God, his DQ remained.

    And the rest of Israel lost its national ID over time after the Assyrian exile.They became scattered everywhere, having taken on new national names. But GOD knows who they are, and to which tribe each belongs.

    And the BIRTHRIGHT belonged to Joseph, but it was not bestowed on him, as he was vice-regent of Egypt the rest of his life. Nor was it bestowed on his sons Ephraim & Manasseh. But it HAS to be bestowed sometime before Jesus returns.

    In Genesis 35, God told Jacob that a nation & a company of nations would come from him. Now, thruout history, neither Israel nor Judah was great. But here's food for thought: what was the greatest nation & company of nations ever? The USA & the British Empire. The USA largely came from Britain. They speak the same languages. While they've had some fights, they've been close allies for over a hundred years, with mostly common interests. The USA has more Jews in its govt. than any other nation, even Israel. Britain has had a Jewish PM. (Disraeli) & is largely responsible for the establishment of modern Israel. And both nations are Israel's greatest allies now.

    And remember 2 Samuel 7:10!
     
    #15 robycop3, Oct 11, 2021
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  16. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Which line is more true than the other line?

    David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel
    nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.

    You said it yourself. No one knows what tribe in Israel they belong to. The genealogical records were destroyed in 70 AD. When the Levites offer burnt offerings and sacrifices, Jesus Christ will be sitting on the throne of David.

    History has shown that a throne of David is in force when a King is sitting on it and there is a realm over which he rules. You are denying the chastening hand of the Lord which chapter 32 and 33 is dealing with and it is not just the house of Judah, but the house of Israel, which includes all 12 tribes that is under consideration in your verse. There is at least 2700 years of time involved between the events of Jer 32:37 and Jer 32:38. From Jer 32:38 the time frame is dealing with the Messiah who sits on the throne of David with the whole house of Israel gathered back from the nations into which they are driven. Watch this.

    36 And now therefore thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city, whereof ye say, It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence;
    ____________

    37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:

    The throne of David concerns the whole house of Israel in their land. From verse 37 through the remainder of the chapter and through chapter 33 we are looking at prophecy that is not fulfilled at this time, but soon will be.

    One must rightly divide the scriptures of truth.

    Here are a few verses after Jer 32:37 to illustrate some things that have not happened yet but where your proof texts are found.

    38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
    39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
    40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
    41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.
    42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
    43 And fields shall be bought in this land, whereof ye say, [It is] desolate without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.
    44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal [them], and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.

    Jer 33:1 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah the second time, while he was yet shut up in the court of the prison, saying,
    2 Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD [is] his name;
    3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
    4 For thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword; (remember the words of James in Acts 15? He uttered that within this 2700 year time frame)
    5 They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but [it is] to fill them with the dead bodies of men, whom I have slain in mine anger and in my fury, and for all whose wickedness I have hid my face from this city.
    6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.
    7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
    8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

    9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
    10 Thus saith the LORD; Again there shall be heard in this place, which ye say [shall be] desolate without man and without beast, [even] in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, that are desolate, without man, and without inhabitant, and without beast,
    11 The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD [is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever: [and] of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.
    12 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing [their] flocks to lie down.
    13 In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the south, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that telleth [them], saith the LORD.
    14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
    15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
    16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this [is the name] wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
    17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
    18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

    One can easily see that the timing of this prophecy is when God has restored both nations to the land as one again. King Messiah will rule over them in perfect peace forever.
     
    #16 JD731, Oct 11, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  17. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
    39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown [by casting it] to the ground.
    40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
    41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
    42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
    43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
    44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.

    David is the anointed and his throne has been cast down to the ground. Thus sayeth the scriptures. The covenant that has been voided in verse 39 is the Davidic covenant. From 70 AD to 1948 AD we saw Israel scattered among the nations and few, if any Jews, in Palestine during that time.

    The crown has been cast to the ground in Verse 39 and the throne has been cast down to the ground in verse 44. So, where is the crown and the the throne now? they are both still on the ground. when will both be restored? Do we know? Are we told? Yes we are told and here is just one place we are told.

    Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
    13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
    14 Simeon (Peter) hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name (in acts 10).
    15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    16 After this (taking from the gentiles a people for his name) I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    17 That the residue of men (the prophets says that few men are left on the earth) might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    Now we know. It will be after the church of Jesus Christ is complete and when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to this earth. He will restore the house of David and the throne at that time. Nothing could be clearer, but here is a passage that is a companion to the above.

    Re 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    WOW! There it is. He is going to be king over kings.

    Ps 47:2 For the LORD most high [is] terrible; [he is] a great King over all the earth.
    Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
     
    #17 JD731, Oct 11, 2021
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  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    God said there'd continually be RULERS (plural) who'd rule over Israelis. he gave that re-iteration to Jeremiah as He was preparing to have Babylon take down Zedekiah & David's throne over Judah, so Jerry could let the Jews know God was still keeping His promise to David.

    As I said earlier, Dave and Solomon had many sons. It was common practice in that time for kings who had several sons to give a fortune to each of them but the chosen heir, & send them far away, with some retainers, to make their own kingdoms, etc. And we don't know where Dave and Solly sent their sons. And none of them had been DQ'd from occupying Dave's throne, so God had already chosen one when He caused Zedekiah to fall.

    As for Levites, they're AVAILABLE to perform temple duties when the Jews build a new one in Jerusalem. Almost every Jew surnamed "Cohen" is a Levite.
     
    #18 robycop3, Oct 12, 2021
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No matter how hard you try, you're NOT gonna get by God's promise to David that there's ALWAYS be a descendant of his ruling over Israelis. So, somewhere, there's a descendant of Dave's ruling over Israelis today.
    The crown being cast to the ground could mean that this man might not be called a king today, or it could mean that neither he nor those he governs recognize themselves as Israelis. remember, a "throne" as used here is a RULERSHIP IN GENERAL, not just by 'royalty'.

    I believe the first of the 3 overturns occurred when Zedekiah fell, & God removed the throne from the Jews. After that, there were 2 more overturns later, according to GOD'S WORD, You're just not gonna get by the FACT that Dave's throne is CONTINUOUS.
     
    #19 robycop3, Oct 12, 2021
  20. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Context is our friend. Words mean things. Prophecies must come to pass or the prophet is false. You are misunderstanding the ways of God. The crown is cast down to the ground. The throne is cast down to the ground. No one has set on the throne of David since the Babylonians dispersed Judah and no one has worn the crown. That is just a fact. The next son of David to rule on his throne and wear the crown will be Jesus Christ, after the day of the LORD judgements when he rids the world of rebels. He says so in the passage you are prooftexting.

    The points you are striving to make are without biblical merit. You are proof texting without context. The conclusions you are making are demonstrably wrong. There is no shame in changing your mind after being corrected. Doing so shows great character and humility.

    See how you are conflicted? First you said no one can know the tribal linage of those of Abraham's seed, which is true. Now, since it has been pointed out that Levites will continually offer sacrifices when this prophesy comes to pass, you are insisting that one can determine who the Levites are.
     
    #20 JD731, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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