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Featured Legit, or bogus??

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by just-want-peace, May 7, 2021.

  1. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Been reading a story about a Dr’s transition from a believer of God to an intimate relation with Jesus. Story has been very interesting as I could follow his “thoughts & feelings” through most of his journey. He experienced much of what we read in scripture re: awe, fear, & loss of composure when meeting Holiness face-to-face!!


    HOWEVER, I just read where he had been to a healing service for his son, & when he talked to the “healer” & his son was prayed for, he was “slain in the spirit” & knocked backward about 20 ft.


    I’m not one of those who believes the gifts were finished with the Apostles, BUT I know of no instance in scripture where such a happening (physical response) as the Dr described, has happened. If so, please enlighten me.


    Scripture tells us: 1Co_14:33 “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, -----.”, & IMHO, this type of manifestation is nothing BUT confusion.


    Ergo, if any scripture exists that verifies/condones this type behavior, I would certainly appreciate the reference cited.


    Thanks much!!!
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    There is none
     
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  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Jn 18:6 is probably the basis for the concept, although it would be a gross misapplication.
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I am not in agreement with this nor the following case from Scripture as any kind of valid justification for it.

    John 18:4-6, ". . . Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. . . ."
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is no "slain in the Spirit". nor flying threough the air, but those soldiers who wanted to take Jesus did fall back to the ground when he stated to them "I am"
     
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Slain in the Spirit?... What Spirit?... Brother Glen:)

    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
     
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  7. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    BTW, the one about the soldiers falling to the ground does not seem likely. One Bible scholar told me that they were actually performing a defensive military move.
     
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Maybe the *real* "slain in the Spirit" is the account of Ananias and Sapphira....;-)
     
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  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    sounds like a Benny Hinn Show you can bet someone shoved him.There is no slain in the spirit in scripture.
    MB
     
    #10 MB, May 11, 2021
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  11. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Thanks guys! Pretty much what I expected, but wanted to make sure I had not left an unturned stone!
     
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  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I've trained in Asian self defense arts for about 50 years now, and I'd say that Bible scholar was speaking baloney. First of all, it was not a military situation. Secondly, in such a confrontation where the opponent had swords (remember Peter's action), only an idiot would fall to the ground where a sword could cut up his legs, and he could not use your own sword. An MMA (UFC) fighter might be known to fall to the ground as a defensive move, since they are trained to fight there--but not a soldier against a sword.

    No, what happened was that they were hit by the knowledge of the deity of Christ and fell down in panic and amazement. I used that argument against a JW once, and he immediately saw my point.
     
  13. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    That is what is called projection. Are you claiming to have trained in group martial arts for a half century? Do you train with and travel in a squad? Are you denying the nature of the rebellions of the time? Ever heard the expressions, “Got your six” or “Got your back”?

    In their minds, there would be reason for them to expect resistance, which is why they went armed in the first place. With Jesus stepping forward so boldly, an ambush would be a logical conclusion. Guarding from all directions would be a logical defensive maneuver. So would be reducing the target.

    And guess what, the most zealous of his disciples went for it and managed an ear, not a leg. Jesus put a stop to it, but it happened just that way, meaning they were not completely wrong to expect armed resistance. While I’m not the one to defend it expertly, the scholar’s suggestion is far from baloney.
     
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  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm 69. I started training in college, where I learned Judo, karate, and kung fu. (I was a high school wrestler before that.) I'm cross-ranked 2nd black in karate, and still practice a form of Shotokan Karate. I am also cross ranked 2nd black in a modern form of Jujutsu. Styles of the Chinese martial arts I train in still include Pai Lum (White Dragon, 6th black), Hung Gar, Wing Chun, Hsing I, and Tan Tui. I head an organization called the Temple Chinese Boxing Association, and am ranked 8th level instructor in that style, which I presented to the Gospel Martial Arts Union in 2002 for recognition, which we received from them. (The Chinese government began recognizing instructor levels some years ago like the Japanese.) I currently serve on the security team of our church, and they have asked me to train them in the future in situation awareness and self defense.

    Doesn't bother me at all if you disagree. I was merely putting in my two cents worth--certainly not attacking you. Didn't know you agreed with your Bible scholar.
     
  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    All of that to say that you evidently don't qualify to evaluate the scholar's opinion.

    Whether I agree with it or disagree is beside the point. The point is that it is highly plausible.

    It's OK to disagree with it, but to be so dismissive of it without basis as you did is unscholarly.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I look at this as like jesus unveiled Himself just enough so that they saw a glimpse of his real glory and they all feel down as John did, like a dead man!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Wow, another Chuck Norris who translates and trains pastors "to boot"
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    So let me let this straight. John 18:6 says, "As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." The word "fell" in Greek is pipto (πίπτω). The Gingrich Shorter Lexicon defines it thus: "lit. Mt 15:27; Mk 9:20; Lk 8:7; 21:24; Ac 20:9; Rv 1:17. Fall down as a sign of devotion Mt 2:11; 18:26, 29; Rv 5:14. Fall to pieces, collapse Mt 7:25, 27; Lk 13:4; Hb 11:30; Rv 11:13.—2. fig. Ac 1:26; 13:11; Rv 7:16. Fail, become invalid Lk 16:17; 1 Cor 13:8. Be destroyed Rv 14:8; 18:2. In a moral or cultic sense go astray, be ruined, fall Ro 11:11, 22; Hb 4:11; 1 Cor 10:12; Rv 2:5" [pg 159].

    Then it was "to the ground," very clear in Greek and also English. So your "Bible scholar," and perhaps you, think that somehow falling completely to the ground is some kind of military maneuver? Really? I'll go back to my original assessment: Baloney! :p

    I'll tell you what bothers me about the "military maneuver" interpretation. It takes away from Christ Himself. They fell back and all the way to the ground because of what Christ said. That is clear in the text. They did not fall down because of anything else. Any "Bible scholar" who misses that is missing the whole narrative about Christ's arrest. With His statement, literally "I AM" in the Greek, He was claiming deity. They could not stand before God incarnate, the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    #18 John of Japan, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Except that Chuck could whip the tar out of me! :confused: I fought in so-called "non contact" tournaments in the 1970's when Chuck also did so. I got knocked out several times, but he usually won the tournament. (Caveat: we were never in the same tournament, and I never fought him.)

    "Chuck Norris once won a Poker tournament using only Pokemon cards."

    "When Chuck Norris played the card game War with a friend, France surrendered."

    From: Chuck Norris once won a Poker tournament using... - Unijokes.com
     
    #19 John of Japan, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They became as John did when Jesus appeared to him in the Revelation, knocked over as if now dead men!
     
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