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Israel's Situation

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by xlsdraw, May 12, 2021.

  1. Konstantin

    Konstantin Member

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    "The Jews know about the coming of the Messiah and, in their own way, expect Him. But the Christian society even has no idea about Him, though Christians have at least some idea of a man of sin who will be accepted in Israel as the Messiah. Neither Jews nor Christians have a complete correct picture of future events, because neither ones nor the another do not understand the prophetic meaning of the Word of God." A righteous branch, Part 1

    There are thousands of denominations today. Their devil's doctrines (1Tim.4:1) contradict each other and biblical doctrine. Neither devil's doctrines, nor sectarians are neither the light of the world, nor the salt of the earth. In Israel, shall be ALL "taught of God" (John.6:45). The earth "shall bee full of the knowledge of the Lord" (Is.11:9) in the Millennium.
     
    #81 Konstantin, May 18, 2021
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So...are you teaching the devil's doctrines or sectarian doctrine since you do not acknowledge that the Church, the body of Christ is Israel?
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Church is spiritual Israel now, but national Israel still has a part of the future plans of God!
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Only in the way that the US has a part in the plans of God. The Sinai Covenant with Israel has been completed in Christ. Any Jew who is redeemed by Jesus will receive the Kingdom, just as you and I receive the Kingdom. There is no blessing for those who fall outside the Kingdom, only wrath and sure judgment.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    saved jews are in the Church of Christ, are spiritual israel, but the nation shall be reborn unto Yahweh when Jesus returns!
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The covenant with the nation of Israel is done.
     
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  7. Konstantin

    Konstantin Member

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    20¶ Woe vnto them that call euill good, and good euill, that put darkenes for light, and light for darkenesse, that put bitter for sweete, and sweete for bitter. (Is.5:20)

    Woe to them who call Israel the Church and the Church Israel.

    There is no concept of spiritual Israel in the Bible. This was invented by the sectarians by perverting the following Bible verses:

    28For hee is not a Iew, which is one outwardly, neither is that Circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

    29But he is a Iew which is one inwardly, and Circumcision is, that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.
    (Rom.2:28-29)
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So is it Israel or the Church that you are calling evil?
    There is only one people of God, believing Jew and believing Gentile together (Ephesians 2:11-22). This is not 'replacement theology,' it is inclusion theology. 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male not female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise' (Galatians 3:28-29). 'For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh' (Philippians 3:3, written to a church in a city that had so few Jews in it that there was no synagogue for Paul to visit - Acts 16:13)
     
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  9. Konstantin

    Konstantin Member

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    Bologna.

    The Bible says that there is the Church and there is Israel.
     
  10. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    Written to the church.
    Paul had not seen Jesus in the flesh resurrected and neither did his audience. Neither have we, the church.

    However, would you call Thomas a Christian?
    Or the two disciples on the road to Emmaus?

    None of these three Believed Until they saw Christ resurrected. You could likely say the same about most if not all of the Apostles.

    Is it really so hard to believe that Jesus may show himself resurrected and glorified to His people Israel.

    There are several hints to this in the scriptures.

    Romans chapter 11 concerning the Lord's ability to graft back in the natural branches that have been broken off.

    Isaiah 63 when Israel questions who is this that comes from Edom with his garments covered in blood. The fulfillment of the many prophecies about the future judgement upon Esau.

    Zachariah concerning the nail prints in his hands and being wounded in the house of his FRIENDS.

    In John, the Jews REQUIRE a sign. I will give you no sign but the sign of Jonah. That sign is Resurrection.

    Did not Thomas require and demand several of these signs?
    Did the Lord cast off Thomas?

    Or did the Lord give Thomas and many other JEWS what they needed to believe?
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 21:43-45
    Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.” When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
     
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  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Ah, Bologna! A lovely old city, though not improved by WW2. It has the oldest university in the world. Perhaps your family come from there, since you write so much of it? Feel free to post some holiday photos.
    But there is only one people of God. See my post #88.
     
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  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Actually, yes. 'As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man.....' No second chance. 'There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and yourselves cast out.' There was a unique opportunity for the people in Israel during our Lord's time on earth, but those days are gone. When the Lord Jesus returns it will be 'in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God [John 8:19; 16:3] and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
    By the grace of God, many Jewish people have converted to Christ over the years, and it is possible that many more will do so. I do not discount the possibility of a great revival among the Jews before the end, or indeed among the Moslems, Hindus and Buddhists, but it will be by the grace of God through repentance and faith.

    If you are actually telling or insinuating to Jewish people that they do not need to repent and trust in Christ for salvation, you are committing a terrible wickedness. You are sending them to hell with a pocket-full of false promises.
     
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God will bring them back under the new One, as Foretold by Jeremiah!
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Provide the specific text you are referring to so we can explore it.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Ezekiel :36-37
    Jeremiah 31:31-34
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Read these sections (I added Hebrews 8 and 9 since the writer adds information regarding the New Covenant). I bolded a statement in Hebrews 9 which helps us understand who Israel and Judah are in the New Covenant. The physical government known today as "Israel" is not what Ezekiel, Jeremiah or the writer of Hebrews is referring to.

    Ezekiel 36:37
    “Thus says the Lord God: This also I will let the house of Israel ask me to do for them: to increase their people like a flock.
    Jeremiah 31:31-34
    “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    Hebrews 8:6-13
    But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Hebrews 9:11-15
    But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

    Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I do not see any of those OT promises fulfilled until Jesus comes back, as all living Jews shall look upon Him and hod Godly mourning unto salvation, as they will will indeed say at that time, "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"
     
  19. Konstantin

    Konstantin Member

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    Pockmarked sleep.

    Sectarians fail to see the prophetic meaning of the Scriptures.God preserves His words "from this generation" (Ps.12:7). Scripture says:

    23And it shall come to passe, that from one new Moone to an other, and from one Sabbath to an other, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. (Is.66:23)

    9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Heb.4:9)

    Both verses speak of Israel in the coming Millennium.
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So the New Covenant is not established right now? Was the prophesy from Psalm 118:26 not fulfilled in the triumphant entry found in Matthew 21?

    As believers we would love it if all humanity would believe Jesus is Lord and repent of their rebellion against the King. God is not exclusionary to just the descendants of Jacob anymore. The promised one has come and fulfilled the old covenant. The new covenant is for all nations, tribes and tongues.
     
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