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Featured 20 minute vid argues that Rev 20 teaches annihilationism!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mark Corbett, Jun 21, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    WHY should ANY sinner who hates the Lord, and does as they like, knowing that they will be completely made extinct after they die, FEAR the Lord??? Your thinking is pure humanism, and GRAVE ERROR!
     
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  2. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    Doesn't Jesus unambiguously teach that God can destroy souls in Matthew 10:28?

    ESV Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
     
  3. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    I answered basically the same question from you in comment #44. You are repeating the question without interacting with my answer. That doesn't help to move the conversation forward.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus had completed the atonement on the cross prior to His physical death, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." Meaning "paid in full," which Jesus said before He physically died, "It is finished," in John 19:30.
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you suffer from delusion on this!
     
  6. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    When Jesus says "It is finished," probably seconds before His death, I do not believe He was saying the atonement was already complete and that His death was not the atonement. I believe He meant that it is finished with His death. He obviously could not wait until after His last breath to say that! The Bible focuses on His death for us:

    ESV Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    ESV 2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;

    ESV 1 Thessalonians 5:10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.
     
  7. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Have you never noted how the Lord, when expounding his parables, corresponds each element to an interpretation (ex: the chaff = the wicked) but never the fire into which the chaff goes? Do you know why? Because the fire is fire.
     
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  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The eternality of punishment of the unsaved wicked is seen in more Scriptures than the Rev. Jesus mentions more than once that their worm doesn't die & their fire is not quenched. Why would that matter if the wicked are to be annihilated? Why would God keep an eternal lake of fire going?

    Annihilation is a tool people use as an excuse to not come to Jesus., I. E. "Why not have fun now? I'm gonna be zapped when it's all over & it'll be as it was before I was born-no pain, no nothing!"
     
  9. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    I have no problem with the fire being fire. The question is: what does the fire do? The Bible's answer is that it burns up the wicked, consumes them, and turns them into ashes. This short video contains relevant verses:

     
  10. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    Does Jesus mention the worms and fire more than once? You might want to check that.

    But more importantly, the one time He does mention it (Mark 9:48), He is quoting from the last verse in Isaiah. In that verse we see that the worms and fire are consuming dead bodies, not tormenting living people.

    ESV Isaiah 66:24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
     
  11. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Each of your 5 points, as worded in your post, argued for the symbolism of fire.
    If you think the fire is literal, at least we can move past that point.
     
  12. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    More specifically, I argue that the lake of fire symbolizes something - namely dying a second time. That does not rule out literal fire being involved in the final judgment. I think there probably is. Might it be in the form of a lake? That's less certain. Other images speak of a fiery furnace. The more important thing is what the lake of fire means. Just like there could be actual incense burning in Heaven (not sure about that), but the important thing is that the incense seen in John's vision stands for the prayers of God's people.
     
  13. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Is the fire strictly symbolic, yes or no? Bc I'm confused now.
     
  14. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    I don't know if the fire is strictly symbolic, and my arguments do not depend on me knowing that. What I'm confident of is that the lake of fire in John's vision is a symbolic image telling us that the unsaved will die a second time.
     
  15. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    This is like the virgin birth. One does not need to know about it in order to be saved. But the saved knowing about it will not deny it.

    In John 19:28 it says, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." That word is the very word Jesus said translated "It is finished" before He physically died. And was what the text says He knew. The Hebrew in Isaiah 53:9 says His deaths plural. Romans 5:8 refers to the death He knew He had already completed in John 19:28. Believe what you want. This is not something to be just made up. Isaiah 53:10.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Those will be the BODIES, not the SOULS. Of course, their mortal bodies will be destroyed, as will ours.
    And in Mark 9, Jesus repeats it 3 times, mentioning HELL FIRE. (For the saved, any missing body parts will be replaced on their new bodies.)

    The original gehenna was the garbage dump outside Jerusalem which was kept ablaze to hold the odor down & reduce the volume of the waste. This fire was so large that rain couldn't quench it. But, the whole thing didn't burn at once. Animal carcasses were dumped there, and also the bodies of criminals. When those bodies didn't burn, there were maggots (worms) present til the bodies were consumed.Flies have a quick life cycle, so it appeared the worms never died, as they were being constantly replenished. But that fire eventually burned itself out, of course, when Jerusalem was destroyed, & the maggots disappeared when they ran outta food. I believe men back then knew that fire would eventually end.

    But more than one verse of Scripture says the fire of hell is eternal. He told Peter it was originally created for the devil & his angels, which implies it's for punishment. God does nothing uselessly, so why would He make the fire of hell eternal except for eternal punishment?

    I, personally, don't plan to find out firsthand how eternal the souls of the lost are, but by teaching a false doctrine, YOU are risking making an awful discovery for yourself !
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #78 37818, Jun 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
  19. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    God created souls to never die. Many complain about the current conditions. Life is not ideal. Even though many pretend it can be. Why does created life just think they can cease to exist? They cannot even manage a sin nature and a dead decaying body. Trying to escape existence is futile.
     
  20. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Active Member

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    Where in the Bible does it teach that all people (including the unrighteous) have souls that will never die (that are immortal, that have eternal life)?
     
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