1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Isaiah 66 and Acts

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you ever notice that the places mentioned in Isaiah 66, where the Kingdom of Zion first reaches toward, are the same areas that are first visited by the missionary efforts in the Acts of the Apostles? Very instructive.

    Make no mistake on this point. Physically, there is no longer a Zion for them to come to. In AD 70 the Jewel and Crown of earthly Zionism is laid in the dust by the Roman Empire. And within 70 years years the next - and last - Jewish revolt, that of Bar Kochba - is decisively and inexorably put down, the glory of city of Jerusalem demolished. Earthly Jerusalem is finished, having become the long-ago destroyed Babylon of Revelation.

    But the Jerusalem from above, "the mother of us all", Gal. 4:26 - the one Isaiah and Revelation - assures us of, is not finished. It just keeps growing. In fact, of this "kingdom there shall be no end." Luke 1:33.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you referring particularly to verse 19?
     
  3. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are about to be schooled by preterist critical thinking skills. Babylon of Rev ch 17-18 is code for Jerusalem. Don't be deterred by the fact that Jerusalem cannot be the mother of harlots because satan worship wasn't born in Jerusalem or for that matter any of the other details of Babylon that don't match Jerusalem.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rome fits that far better then Jerusalem!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Special insights are required to sort through all the allegory and spiritual stuff. It's apocalypse drama, need special training to decode.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Best to treat Prophecy as being literal, unless the bible itself describes it as being otherwise!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    where does it say Rome was to be a faithful bride, who is playing the harlot?
    the op is speaking of Zion.Was that in Rome?
    Supply the scripture you used to arrive at your tweet
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yeshua1, don't say I didn't warn you about the impending lesson from the school of (PCT) preterist critical thinking.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Harlot and Whore in Revelation was Rome.....
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    says who?
    Do you have any scripture?...no you dont.
    Did you deal with the Op.?
    Zion?
    Your tweets are useless unless you can give scriptural support.
    What you or I say has no value unless there is a scriptural base for any claim.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jerusalem is the city that will have the fountain of grace in it when Messiah returns!
    Zechariah 13:1 so cannot be the harlot of end times
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As far as the places are concerned, yes. I think it was Matthew Poole's commentary where I first read this. The more I studied out the context of the chapter, and extending many chapters before, the more the pieces seemed to fit.

    More later, but for some reason my laptop cannot get the wifi in this hotel this evening and it is too much to type on this phone
     
  13. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My OP here is not specifically preterist. As I wrote to rlvaughn, I first came across this association of Isa. 66 with Acts in the Commentary of Matthew Poole.
     
  14. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew Poole is code for Kenneth Gentry
     
  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rather simplistic. Are you serious?
     
  16. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rather obvious. Are you replacement?
     
  17. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you ever notice, Our Lord said in Matthew 5:17-18 that until heaven and earth disappears, not the smallest detail of the law and the prophets would be abolished, that is until it all is accomplished. Have you ever noticed this? Has heaven and earth disappeared yet? Have all of the smallest details of the law and the prophets been realized yet?
     
  18. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you. You are making my point. But for better understanding we should look at the following verse as well.

    "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


    Thomas, are you obeying the "smallest details of the Law"? Are you wearing mixed garments? Are you tithing everything you have? Are you going to Jerusalem three times a year? Are we still stoning disobedient children to death?

    This is the point that I am raising, that we are past all of that. Yet - according to the passage - all of the Law and the Prophets is fully in force until that point in which none of it is in force.

    As far as the Law in your passage is concerned it is either all or nothing.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Oh really!
    First, I want to thank you for offering a verse which we always urge you to do, you offered one although you are not using it correctly.
    Let's see
    Second...13:1 mentions Jerusalem, that is correct. The OP. Is speaking of Zion which you have not commented on.
    Third...you suggest that it will have a fountain of grace in it...when Messiah returns??????

    Jesus Himself spoke of Zech13..
    .as fulfilled at the Cross which you did not know, or ignore as you insert a futuristic view that is foreign to the text:Cautious:Cautious:Cautious
    Mt.26:31,mk14:27
    The Messiah has already come to accomplish redemption having inaugurated the Kingdom.
    This is the danger of just posting ideas from left field with no scripture backing you up.
    Even when you might suggest something about the grace of God, and be on the right side of the issue, if you do not use scripture correctly you post is not valid:Sick.
    Try answering the OP and comment on the actual topic:Thumbsup
     
  20. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm a sinner saved by grace for faith Jesus work on the cross, not because of anything I can do, would like to do or have done or due to my fantastic luck living in the time after the cross.

    I'm not the one that thinks that we are in the kingdom promised in the law and prophets and I'm not the one that thinks that all or even most prophecy is fulfilled. By faith I expect that Jehovah will keep his promises to the absolute letter made to the son's of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob.

    My Bible teaches that when Jesus returns it will be quite an event on the scope of the flood of Noah, not something that is missed by those who are actively looking for His return centuries later. If I were to think that Jehovah changed His mind about promises made to the Jews then based on what behavioral traits of the 21st century church do I think he will keep his promises to me?
     
Loading...