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Jesus is the Reason for Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 11, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    What the heck?
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You do not speak for everyone.
    You have your thoughts.
    You are trying to promote discussion.
    You are getting resistance.
    You are on the right side of many of the issues.
    There is much more to be said,then one liners.
     
  3. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    You're making Calvinists look bad. Arminians are nowhere near the same level as Jehovah's Witnesses.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Utterly false, the concept of predestination is no where to be found. Thus your rebuttal is simply reading into the text, something not found. The preposition "en" is used to show instrumentality, or by which or with which something is accomplished, thus is translated as "through." Thus the action (being chosen) is accomplished by (by means of) or through faith in the truth.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Non-germane response, thus a deflection rather than an answer. If irresistible grace were valid, and it is not, it would not be "hard" for a rich man, or any man to enter the kingdom. Irresistible grace is thus unbiblical false doctrine. Deflection will not change truth.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Listen there's no looking good or looking bad there's truth and there's error. The point of the illustration is everyone says or claims what they believe to be true so you have to look at the the Bible and see where the truth is found .
    you're not going to find truth and error on both sides of the fence
    a JW.denies the Trinity there's no ,well he might be right you might be right ,he's wrong.
    Some people haven't come to truth yet.
    some have come to some truth, and not all of it.
    I personally believe everyone every believer is the calvinist but they don't know it yet. I believe that of the Five Points as you can see from the poll
    some believe 2 pts, some believe 4,
    some leave off this point or that.
     
  7. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Calvinism vs. Arminianism isn't an essential matter to salvation.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Again you are stating an opinion. Not everyone that professes to be a calvinist is a Christian not everyone that professes to being Arminian is a Christian.
    Why not leave that to God.
    I am not going to declare that truth is not essential, especially when Jesus declared it is so.
     
  10. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I don't know how this can be anymore clear. You are chosen unto salvation, rather than you choosing salvation. How do you interpret Romans 9?
     
  11. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    You compared Arminians to Jehovah's Witnsess, and I don't believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are saved.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism reads into the parable of the sower that the fourth soil is elect. However, that is speculation read into the text to support Calvinist presupposition.

    Unconditional Election of individuals is false doctrine, as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says people are chosen for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. This same doctrine is also found in James 2:5 where God chooses those poor to the world, rich in faith, and those who love God, thus heirs to the promise to those who love God.

    Christ provided the means of salvation for all humanity but only those God chooses by reason of crediting their faith as righteousness are placed into Christ and are thus redeemed.

    Once again, your response deflected but did not address the issue, how could they be entering is unable to seek God, and how could they be prevented from going in, if enabled by irresistible grace. No answer is possible, except that both the T and the I of the TULIP are bogus.

    Once again, the answer to your question concerning perseverance, changes the definition of "enabling grace" from something that alters the unsaved such that they willingly believe, to something that preserves that faith after the person is placed into Christ. The answer from scripture, of course is 1 Peter 1:3-5 which says of those already born anew, God keeps them by protecting their faith.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another deflection, with no answer as to why Jesus teaches "irresitible grace" is bogus.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Where did I do that?
    Read more carefully.
     
  15. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    You are not even defining the term "irresistible grace" the same way that Reformed theology defines it, therefore no amount of Biblical evidence will be able to refute your strawman of irresistible grace.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Vicious disinformation post, behold the falsehood of Calvinism. No one said 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we choose salvation. It says God chooses us through or by reason of faith in the truth. Full Stop
     
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Utterly false claim, as I presented the definition referenced by a Calvinist. It appears Calvinists are so ignorant of their own doctrine, they are unable to recognize it.
     
  18. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    How do you interpret Romans 9?

    ...and that's exactly what Reformed theology teaches about preservation of the saints.

    I don't think you are understanding the terms the same way that Reformed theology means them. Instead, you are attacking strawmen.
     
  19. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    No, you just might be revealing your own prejudice against Calvinism. I'm not insisting that you must agree with Calvinism.
     
  20. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Again, how do you interpret Romans 9?
     
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