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Featured The Willingness of men

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Sep 15, 2021.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    A multitude that no man can number is not a "small group"
    Millions go to hell because they love sin.
    God could not have saved one more person or one less person than His perfect plan and purpose saves.
    Free will is a philosophical falsehood that does not exist.It is not God given.
    You have been shown that these objections are useless many times but cling to such errors.
    You mention the 1689 but chop it up and reword it to pervert the meaning.
    Quote whole sentences as they were written.
    Those carefully worded statements were written by design.
     
    #21 Iconoclast, Sep 16, 2021
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  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    "and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life."[John 5:40]

    Jesus told this to the Jews who were seeking to kill Him. Earlier He had healed the man who sat daily at a pool in Bethesda. They saw him carrying his pallet and castigated him for carrying it on the Sabbath. When he found out it was Jesus who told him to "Get up, pick up your pallet and walk", he told them it was Jesus, that was the reason why they sought to persecute Him. When He made Himself equal with God by saying, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”, they sought all the more to kill Him.

    These are they very folk He stated "and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life'" Notice that there was nothing holding them back physically from coming to Him. Granted, there were several times that they sought to kill Him, yet the Father would not allow it as it was not yet time for His crucifixion. But that statement is in regards to coming to Him for eternal life. Nothing physically held them back from coming to Him to gain eternal life. No one stood in their way of doing this. It was their hearts that precluded them from coming to Him for eternal life. And no amount of exerting their will would have caused them to come to Him for eternal life, seeing So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.[Romans 9:16]
     
    #22 SovereignGrace, Sep 17, 2021
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  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    #23 Martin Marprelate, Sep 17, 2021
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  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No where in scripture is irresistible Grace even mentioned. This doctrine is based on the question "Who has resisted his will" The The passage never says anyone has although it doesn't say they can' either.
    Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    An entire doctrine based on one verse. A question that is left unanswered.
    Pharaoh resisted God. Jonah resisted God. Salomon resisted God everyone who sins, resist God. The Jews reject God's Son this was resistance at the maximum. This is how wrong irresistible Grace really is. It's entirely based on a question..
    MB
     
    #24 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Unwillingness is resistance. When it comes to Salvation it doesn't depend on the man but God. He has already said all who call on His name will be saved. It is God's will to save those who believe. Can you name any who have believed and were not saved?
    MB
     
    #25 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    So you are suggesting that I am resisting God. While you don't believe it's possible, aren't you amazed? Every Christian has heard the word of God. How else could he ever have any hope. I've heard the word of God all of my life. I was raised in a Baptist church and I was 14 when I accepted Christ. Calvinist have disagreed with my Salvation arguing that I didn't have anything to do with it. I was there I know what Happened. Calvinist can't accept that I was saved. Now all of a sudden you try and claim that you agree with what I've said all along. But I do not agree with your doctrines. They are as false as they can get.
    MB
     
    #26 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not true to your doctrine. You've told me that they go to hell because God didn't choose them.
    MB
     
    #27 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, all humans are unwilling. This is why God must will, choose and elect by his Supreme authority.
     
    #28 AustinC, Sep 17, 2021
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  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.
    "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
    "The wages of sin is death."
    People enter hell by their merited law-breaking. All humanity is justly condemned. Yet, God chooses to grant mercy to whom he wills. He does this by His Supreme authority. Do you hate God for doing what He has the right to do?
     
    #29 AustinC, Sep 17, 2021
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  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The Jews resisted Christ.
    Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
    Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
    MB
     
    #30 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I am saying that you, yourself, admitted that you heard the word of God first, then you confessed with your mouth and believed in your heart.

    You agree with Reformed theology (Calvinism). Yet, somehow you cannot stand the very thing you confirmed.
     
    #31 AustinC, Sep 17, 2021
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  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    mb

    Not in such wording, however its Illustrated, for one Jn 6:44

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    This drawing is irresistible.

    The effectual call of grace 1 Pet 2:9

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    This call is effectual, irresistible , in that it calls a person out of darkness and into Gods marvellous light.

    Its the call of grace as Paul experienced Gal 1:15

    But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

    Its irresistible grace here Ps 110:3

    3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    What makes them willing but the power of Gods Grace
     
    #32 Brightfame52, Sep 17, 2021
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  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Thats what all men do without grace.
     
    #33 Brightfame52, Sep 17, 2021
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  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, that's why scripture teaches total inability of man spiritually, it sets the stage and foundation on why Salvation is 100% of Gods Grace.
     
    #34 Brightfame52, Sep 17, 2021
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  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No I do not hate God. What gives you the right to ask such an ignorant question. How ever God has already granted repentance to the Gentiles whether chosen or not. Do you hate God? because you keep misrepresenting His word. You really should just give up because you have no idea what you are talking about.
    MB
     
    #35 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. You condemn all men, Like you have that authority. Exactly what the accuser does, He accuses, whether guilty or not.
    It was the Jews who rejected there messiah. Gentiles didn't have a messiah at the time

    Totally non biblical nonsense is all that comes from your ignorant post.

    .
    Prove the Bible teaches inability. and that it's total
    MB
     
    #36 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Ironic as it may be the first of these passages is pointing directly at you in that you try to suppress the truth. No worries I'll do my best to show your deceptions.
    MB
     
    #37 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Understanding a myth is easy. Myths are false. Like your doctrine is false..You aply to your self what is said to Israel
    MB
     
    #38 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You wish all you want to Austin. As long as I'm alive I will dispute you and your false doctrine.
    MB
     
    #39 MB, Sep 17, 2021
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Notice that they were unwilling. They could have been willing but they weren't. If they can be unwilling this alone suggest they could also be willing.
    MB
     
    #40 MB, Sep 17, 2021
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