Secede?

Not good.

 

Current status of secession movements in the US – Red-State Secession

 

wait, give me a chance to move to eastern WA state, or, better yet, into the heart of the American redoubt. I have lived around the left coast left all my life, these people think Gavin Newsome is just peachy keen.

 

My home has jumped up more than 100,000.00 in the last couple of years. Folks from NY and Cali are calling real estate agents buying homes sight unseen

 

I say go for it! Wouldn't bother me in the least and it'd probably be a sight better than what we got now.

And I think BOTH parties ought to be thrown out into the pigsty. 90% of Dems are bad and so are 85% of Reps.

 

Put my Mom's house up for sale a couple months ago and insisted the real-estate agent list it for 40k more than what he said was going prices for comparable houses in the area, which was already incredibly high. Sold it for cash for 14k over my asking price in 2 days! About twice what I would have got for it just a year ago.

I would say yes, however this creates a great opportunity to build your own house if you can manage it. Sold Mom's house to a California company that invests in leasing in houses for rent. I built my 5,400sf home, all by myself with my own 2 hands, and am considering splitting off 2 x 1 acre lots to build a couple rentals but my energy level almost 20 years ago was much higher and I would want to sub some of the work out or hire a younger energetic man to train and supervise full time to get it done so I don't wreck myself trying to do it myself. I'm afraid finding the subs or a dependable ambitious young man wanting to learn the trades and make some money might be difficult. If I could only find a younger version of me to put to work it would be win-win all the way around. Material costs are high but so is profit margins so that is about a wash. I could sell the lots alone for an incredible profit but prefer having control over who lives next to me so I'm stuck at this point but looking into possibilities.

Yes, I'd say it is good time to sell but one has to remember that if they also need to buy that will also be costly, in high demand and stiff competition, especially in popular red states.

That said, I'd probably be willing to take a downsize hit get out of a blue state.

 

Thanks for that link. I have been all over that site --it's highly interesting and informative. I'm in favor of a soft secession.

 

Secession will result in war and it will be way worse than the first civil war.

 

Texas has a problem with Yankees moving here and trying to make it into what they had at their old residence.

 

The Apostle Paul died at the hands of the State and lived under the rule of Nero, yet he told Christians these words from God:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
~ Romans 13:1-7

 

Same here. We built our home in late 2015 and it has increased in value by 65%! However, we have no intention of moving from a Red state to the Peoples Democratic Republic of ______ (fill in the blank).

 

I find it helpful to take doctrines like these to extreme circumstances to see if it's something God would support or if there are caveats. I find the below thought experiment helpful.

Suppose that we lived in a civilization where our government of stable laws was toppled. The ruler then changed daily as new warlord after new warlord toppled each other day after day. Each day the warlords made new rules for us Christians to submit to.

The Christian needs to then ask the following questions:
1. Does this government promote order, or does it cause confusion? Recall God is not the author of confusion.

2. The next question to ask is "What impact does the government have on my other God Given commands such as raising a family, attending service, providing for my wife and kids?"

3. What is the "government"? Is it whatever each warlord fancies day by day? Or is it a system of stable laws that have been set forth prior to the warlord takeover?

4. If the warlords command Christians to do that which is against the preceeding system of laws, then do we obey man's whims, or do we obey the law on the books?

5. The Nazi test. You are a citizen of the Third Reich. You are commanded to pay taxes so that your government can gas your neighbor. According to the law you are not to hide Jews in your house. Do you submit, or does the Holy Spirit inside of you balk at that idea?

I think this is the "smell test" that each Christian needs to be apply to each case of submitting to Caesar. I believe that after going through a thought experiment like this most Christians will find circumstances where the Holy Spirit balks at certain circumstances.

 

If, in your scenario, the various warlords do not require me to break God's moral laws in their law, then I am to obey their laws as each warlord is ordained by God for that day.
It is more telling that you seem desperate for a loophole rather than taking Paul's admonition to heart. Remember, Paul was under the rule of Nero and died by the decree of Nero, yet Paul upheld God's sovereign ordination of all rulers, both good and bad.
We see David doing this same thing with King Saul as David refused to strike down God's elect, even though Saul was trying to kill David.
Ultimately, are we going to obey God or are we going to look for loopholes to disobey God and then excuse ourselves for our disobedience?

 

Brings to mind , "agemans," thread, "Can you prove by scripture,". And should cause one to ask, just what is God doing during this age of the first-fruit of the Spirit.

R 8:20 for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, R 8:20
Did that begin the moment God rested from his creation: Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. -- Was that subjected to vanity?

Is the following, age, the revelation of the sons of God?

Luke 20:35,36 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.

Rom 8:19,23 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;

Will the creation not then be subject to vanity??? Rom 8:21 that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;

Consider: Is that the time frame being spoken of in Rev 20:2-4? and he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, who is Devil and Adversary, and did bind him a thousand years, and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

I wonder what the old serpent, who is the devil and Adversary (Satan) was doing the day God rested?

Might be a good time to go read Daniel 2 again.

 

I might be I received a call from NAMB in a particular state to take on a church replant. We’ve started the process to see if this is Gods will. I’d definitely sell my house.

 

1. It is not a loophole, and it is obeying God. Nero does not fit the conundrum. Nero was a Roman Emperor operating in the Roman Empire. If you insist on using Rome as an example then we can look at the period prior to Christ's life on earth.

When Julius Caesar usurped Roman Law and began the process of converting the Republic into an Empire what would a hypothetical Christian do?

Do you obey Julius Caesar who just took power? Or do you obey the system of laws in the Roman Republic?

By obeying 1 you are automatically disobeying the other. There are 2 Caesars.

At this point a Christian needs to decide which system to adhere to. There is no middle ground.


2. Answer this question then if you believe Paul was telling you to obey everything unless it's a specific moral law from God:

You have been told not to shelter Jews in Nazi Germany as they are evil and need to be exterminated. A Jewish family arrives at your doorstep.
Do you disobey Caesar and let them stay, or turn them away? You are not killing them yourself, you're just enabling Caesar.

 

There is no conundrum. You are desperately looking for one, however.

Our King is Jesus. When a subordinate governor tells us to do something against the will of our King, we must obey God rather than men. Peter and John teach us this truth when they answer to the Sanhedrin in the book of Acts.

There is nothing in the US that gives us license to call for secession from the union of States. That is what this thread is discussing. Any Christian advocating secession is advocating treason and is thus fighting against God's ordained leadership in the US.

 

this again - yeah yeah yeah, let's all OBEY Romans 13 but only if we happen to like the current government:

https://www.craiggreenfield.com/blog/romans13

same book and chapter was misused to uphold the Fugitive Slave Act and to oppose the American Revolution.