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2 Peter 2:1 Cannot be referring to a saved believer

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Oct 18, 2021.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Reformed1689 said:
    First of all you are not factual about what I said. I said your meaning is not found in Scripture.
    Reformed1689 said:
    I can't grasp a point that is not actually in Scripture.
    Calvinists even rewrite their own posts...

    Here, again, is what I actually said:

    Anyone can say "that is not in scripture."
    He claims "even denying the Master who bought them" is no where to be found. This verse (2 Peter 2:1) indicates some are bought but not given, however no Calvinists can grasp the concept.

    Calvinists say something, then claim they meant another, but do not engage the topic, being content to hurl insults. Everyone given is saved but everyone bought is not saved because some go to swift destruction. This is the concept every Calvinist cannot grasp due to the blindness created by their indoctrination into false doctrine.
     
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    According to your theology that is what you promote. Look at the LBCF or TULIP. Just bad theology.
     
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Your words really are just empty wind. I am sorry that you cannot or will not trust in the truths of the bible but as I have said before you are just determined to think that way.

    When you do quote scripture you have to put your Calvinist spin on it. Just trust what the text says and you will find the truth.
     
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry but where did you find that in the scriptures?
    What I did find was:
    Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    Did you notice the difference there. That is why the Calvinist view of the bible is in error. You have to twist scripture to make it fit your view.
     
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  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Please address the specific person you disagree with. Your generalizing is simply not true. Be honest. Speak directly to the one you quote. Thank you.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You just simply have to read from chapter 3 verse 1 to verse 21.

    Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesusby night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
    ~ John 3:1-21

    I can go on to John 6, John 10, John 17, and more, but it is obvious you don't really want to study all of scripture.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on, off topic after off topic, insult after insult.

    Reformed1689 said:
    First of all you are not factual about what I said. I said your meaning is not found in Scripture.
    Reformed1689 said:
    I can't grasp a point that is not actually in Scripture.
    Calvinists even rewrite their own posts...

    Here, again, is what I actually said:

    Anyone can say "that is not in scripture."
    He claims "even denying the Master who bought them" is no where to be found. This verse (2 Peter 2:1) indicates some are bought but not given, however no Calvinists can grasp the concept.

    Calvinists say something, then claim they meant another, but do not engage the topic, being content to hurl insults. Everyone given is saved but everyone bought is not saved because some go to swift destruction. This is the concept every Calvinist cannot grasp due to the blindness created by their indoctrination into false doctrine.

    Ask yourselves why the Calvinist posters are unable to address "bought but not given?"
     
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    >>It was in this manner that God loved his elect throughout the world, that he gave his one and only Son with the intention that every believer will not be lost but have eternal life.<< is what I was replying to as you well know. But why am I surprised that you just do your usual cherry picking. It may shock you to know this but God does not have an elect throughout the world. Those that place their trust in Christ Jesus become Gods' elect. Subtle difference but that point seems to be beyond your grasp.

    Where I only quoted Joh 3:16 you used 14-19, but to the same effect. You should notice that it is those that trust in Christ Jesus that are saved/elect. They have not been pre chosen as you are want to say, and as RipponRedeaux was suggesting. The text does not support the Calvinist view. While God does indeed know who will come to faith in Christ Jesus He does not cause them to do so.

    The verses that you have quoted show that man has a free will and thus is able to make the choice to follow or reject faith in Christ Jesus.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are being disingenuous.
     
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you ever read your posts to see how much you project?
    John 3:1-21 has nothing to do with human will. Can you will yourself to become a new creation (be born again)? Can you will yourself to believe? Do you find anything about the human will being free in those verses?
    What we have is you projecting onto those verses and then telling me that your projection is accurate. So, get off your prideful high horse and let scripture speak for itself.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Show me "bought, but not given" in 2 Peter 2:1
    But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    We await your exegesis. I provided mine in the OP. Now it is your turn. Show us your exegetical skills, Van.
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I can and have said the same thing to you Austin >>What we have is you projecting onto those verses and then telling me that your projection is accurate. So, get off your prideful high horse and let scripture speak for itself.<<

    You are reading the text through a set of Calvinist glasses whereas I am just letting scripture be as it is written. Your pride is your biggest challenge.

    God is reaching out to us through creation and the gospel message. He wants us to turn to Him in faith but for you if someone does that then that is a work. Your view is just plain unbiblical. Why you cannot see that is beyond me but I do hope that you will one day.
     
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  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You assumed my meaning, you know what they say about assuming....
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You are, again, being disingenuous. It is time you stop.
     
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  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So it is fine for you to put forward your views as true but anyone else is just being disingenuous. Give it a rest Austin. I have shown you a number of scriptures that show your view is in error yet you just spout the same old line. If you had a compelling argument that supported Calvinism then that would be fine but I have yet to see a biblical one put forth.

    Twisting scripture or changing the meaning of words to support your view is not a compelling argument. Just read the bible and don't read into it what you want to find.
     
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You should take your own advice.
     
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  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Be honest, there is nothing that can change the projection you have. Like the Pharisees, you cannot see anything outside of your philosophy.
    However, it seems you ignore the fact that I was born and raised in your free will world. How, do you suppose, is it that when I read the Bible on my own, I realized that free will teaching is not accurate with the Bible?
    Not only myself, but Dave has the same testimony.
    Silverhair, your views are old hat to me. I could spin your yarn with ease because it is what I once spun. But God changed my heart when I read the Bible rather than rely on the preaching I grew up with.
    You have nothing to stand on with me. Your accusations are disingenuous. Moreso, you know it, but you are too stuck in your projection.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I took your words at face value, using dictionary meanings. Liberals claim their special secret meanings are the only meaning allowed. Go figure. I use the historical, as found in lexicons, meanings for biblical words, not the redefinitions of Calvinism. All means all of the group in view, not some of the group in view...
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Asked and answered, so now we get the ploy of the repetitive question.
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You say: "This verse (2 Peter 2:1) indicates some are bought but not given"

    Please exegete this verse. You claim it "indicates" which is synonymous with implies. Show us the clear implication in the verse.

    2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
     
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