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Featured Ye must be born again! 2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, May 11, 2022.

  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Because I live ye shall live also !

    Jn 14:9

    Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    Yes, Jesus was speaking to His Disciples at the time He stated this Truth, but yet it was not limited to them alone, but was a promise for all those whom He died and rose again in behalf of. He Lived again / resurrection after having died for or because of their offences Rom 4:25, and because He Lived afterwards, hence they[those whom sins He died for] shall Live also, that was the point in Him rising from the dead, for their Justification.

    Now what Jesus is promising to the entire ransomed Church of God is Life from the dead, regeneration or new birth. Because the Head Lives, the Body shall live also !

    The Promise of their regeneration is stated again here Ps 110:3

    3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    We become willing servants of Christ in the Day of His Spirit regenerating us, much like how Paul did who was moments before saul the persecutor ! In the Day of Christ's Power see how willing he became Acts 9:1-6

    And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

    2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

    3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

    4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

    5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

    6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

    This was Christ's Power that wrought this change in saul, it was not his own freewill as many deceivers would tell us !

    Paul was not forced into submission to Christ, no he did it voluntarily, but yet it was effected by the Power of Christ, his volunteerism was the effect of the Day of Christ's Power !

    The reason why all of the sudden he was so willing to serve Him that only moments ago he hated, its because he was by the Power of regeneration given a New Mind Heb 8:10

    For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    Heb 10:16

    This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    Because the Old mind is enmity towards Christ, even as saul demonstrated before becoming paul Rom 8:7

    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Thats why regeneration for the People of God is a absolute must and why its Promised through the Merits of Christ's Death
     
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Because I live ye shall live also !2

    The Promise of Psalm 110:3

    3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    Whenever we see the word shall as it pertains to Divine Things it generally will mean predestination, something shall be because God predetermined it to be, and that is a sure foundation ! This promise looks to regeneration, for after we are regenerated or born anew by the Spirit we seek to please God and obey His statues Ezk 36:26-27

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Thats being made willing in the Day of His Power !

    I will put my Spirit within you ! And what does the Spirit do ? Jn 6:63

    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    The Spirit He puts within us quickeneth us, the word zōopoieō means :


    I.to produce alive, begat or bear living young


    II.to cause to live, make alive, give life

    A.by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

    to excite or activate, to fill with energy, strength, or vigor.

    The Spirit activates us unto Living and obeying God, to submit to God !

    By Nature we are at enmity with God and will not be subject to Him Rom 8:7

    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Notice 3 things here about the carnal mind we all have by nature :

    1. It is enmity against God !

    2. It is not subject to the Law of God, so therefore it is not subject to God !

    3. Neither can it be subject to God, it does not even have the ability to be !

    man by nature opposes God and rebels against Him . So the Resurrected Christ provides for that enmity and rebellion by regeneration, the Gift of the Spirit, and so we read Ps 68:18

    Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.

    Yeah for the rebellious ! That word means:

    I.to rebel, be stubborn, be rebellious, be refractory,

    Those fallen away, those who refuse to submit !

    Well the Risen and ascended Christ gives gifts for that in order that God may dwell among them, and they become His Temple ! 2 Cor 6:16

    And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Christ subdues God's People unto Him, so that they shall Live unto God Rom 6:10-11

    10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

    11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Because He lives and is alive to God, so shall them He died and arose again, shall liveth unto God, through Him !

    They shall be Born Again, Guaranteed ! 12
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The interpretations being given overall of verse 3 seem obscure. Psalms 110:1 and Psalms 110:4 are clearly referring to the glorified incarnate Christ. ". . . Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of Thy youth. . . ." [Luke 2:11.]
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It is Talking about Christ, who is God. Jesus had His Priestly Glory before the world began Jn17:5

    5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Also, The People He saves, are made willing in the day of His Power, Like saul to Paul !
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No, Psalms 110:1-4 is explicitly about His post incarnation and glorification.
    John 17:5, ". . . And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. . . .". Is about how He was again to be with God, John 1:2, as His Person. He never ceased being God's glory, John 1:9, John 3:13 [KJV], Hebrews 1:1-3.
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Im not going to debate you on that, its obviously over your head, yet man is made willing in the Day of Gods Power.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is over my head? I do not think you understood my argument.
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Why we must be born again !

    Jesus said to one that would believe on Him these words Jn 3:4-7

    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    The word Ye here is in the singular, for Jesus is specifically speaking of Nicodemus, who would later believe on Him as the record indicates Jn 19:38-40

    38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.

    39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.

    40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

    Jesus said to him Ye must be born again ! The word must is the greek word dei and means:

    I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper

    A.necessity lying in the nature of the case

    And that necessity in the nature of the case is that all men, but in particular the Elect of God are without it [being born again] are in a state of spiritual death, along with the non elect vessels of wrath, they are dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

    And you[plural] hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    The word dead here in Vs 5 and vs 1 is the greek word nekros and means:

    II.metaph.

    A.spiritually dead

    i.destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins


    ii.inactive as respects doing right



    B.destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

    This is the case of the Elect of God by nature that necessitates their need to be born again,

    Luke 15:24

    24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

    Matt 8:22

    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

    Its Illustrated what the Elect are by nature as dead here Ezk 37:2-4


    The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

    2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

    3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live[from death]? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

    4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

    5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

    6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

    Without the breath of God in them, we are as dead man bones without Life and movement towards God.

    We dont Live until breath is put into us, the breath is the Spirit of God in New Birth

    That word breath in Ezk 37:5-6 also can be translated wind, which points to Jesus words here as it pertained to being born again Jn 3:7-8

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Thus the necessity of being Born Again in order to become Believers and followers of Jesus Christ, because of the elects dead spiritual state by nature !
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Why we must be born again ! 2

    Regeneration / New Birth is essential if we are ever to believe the True Gospel or Believe upon the True Christ from or with the Heart as Per Rom 10:10

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Now the Heart here does not mean that bodily organ that pumps blood throughout the physical body, it means :

    ii.the centre and seat of spiritual life

    a.the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours


    b.of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence


    c.of the will and character

    But now by nature, the unregenerate to include the Elect of God do have a heart of stone Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    In fact, the very words " I will give you an heart of flesh." is synonymous with New Birth or Regeneration,

    Also the heart of the Elect by nature as well as the non elect is uncircumcised Acts 7:51

    51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

    But in regeneration we receive this Rom 2:29

    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Thats what is meant in Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    By nature the heart is blinded and the understanding darkened Eph 4:18

    Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    The word blindness here is the greek word pōrōsis:


    I.the covering with a callus


    II.obtrusiveness of mental discernment, dulled perception


    III.the mind of one has been blunted

    A.of stubbornness, obduracy

    B.to grow hard, callous, become dull, lose the power of understanding

    And in order to properly believe with the heart there must be a degree of understanding spiritually Jn 12:40

    He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    Matt 13:19,23

    When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    This means the person received the seed of the word into good ground and understandeth it, it means they had been given an heart of flesh Ezk 36:26 in New Birth, a Circumcised Heart, else they could not have believed the Word of God !
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Why we must be born again ! 3

    The best the natural man can do without a new heart given in New Birth is to become a superficial believer, he may attain to a natural reception pf the Kingdom Truths of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ as is pointed out here by the Lord Matt 13:20-21

    20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

    21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

    Now this shows that the unregenerate heart can receive the Gospel Truth in some manner, perhaps merely intellectually, yet notice that it does not take root in their heart, and sooner or later they stumble at it and become offended ! Luke states it that they shall fall away Lk 8:13

    13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

    They believe only temporary is the awful indictment against them, then they must fall away in testing.

    Now the word for fall away is aphistēmi and means:


    I.to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove

    A.to excite to revolt

    II.to stand off, to stand aloof

    A.to go away, to depart from anyone

    B.to desert, withdraw from one


    C.to fall away, become faithless


    D.to shun, flee from


    E.to cease to vex one


    F.to withdraw one's self from, to fall away


    G.to keep one's self from, absent one's self from

    They do what John writes of here in His Epistle 1 Jn 2:19

    19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    In fact the word is the very same Paul uses here 1 Tim 4:1

    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith of the Gospel, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    Thats evidence of them having been stony heart hearers who later fall away like Jesus stated ! Its also evidence that they never had a regenerate heart, but they still have the heart of stone Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    So the stony heart here is the same as the Matt 13:20-21

    20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

    21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

    Yes they can receive it, but only to fall away from it, neither did they truly understand it, because they are contrasted with those who did receive it, but they understood it and bare fruit Matt 13:23

    23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    Please note, it was never stated that the stony ground hearer understood it !

    And Understanding the Word with the heart is vital to conversion Jn 12:39-40

    39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    Thats the indictment against the unregenerate heart in its inability to believe the Gospel, it may believe it superficially, but thats about it !

    Thats why its essential for the Elect to be born again to believe the Gospel !12
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What is the New Birth ?

    First of all it should be made clear that the New Birth is the answer [response] to the effects of Christ's Meritorious Death ! Its Merits, the Merits of His Blood is the Meritorious Cause of why is effected !

    The New Birth is the Impartation of Spiritual Life inwardly See Ezk 11:9;36:26 into all for whom He died, and as a result abolishing death for them 2 Tim 1:10, and since this is True, to them He abolished for, He becomes a Quickening/ Life Giving Spirit which results in the New Birth ! Jn 5:21

    21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth or gives life to whom he will.

    And the Spirit is the Instrumental means by which He quickens Jn 6:63

    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth or gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Now for all whom He died, He abolished death for them, which as a result and motive, He gives life from the dead, which is a confirmation that for them He has abolished their death !
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What is the New Birth ? 2

    Also in addition, the New Birth is the attending fruit of Christ's Righteousness having been Imputed to those He died for, because Righteousness demands Life Prov 12:28

    28 In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

    And because Christ's Obedience unto death makes them He died for Righteous Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Then Life , Spiritual Life, must be granted to spiritually dead sinners whom He makes Righteous by His Obedience ! 13
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 10:14-15, ". . . But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ."
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Did you understand the post you quoted ?
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is the reason for the new birth.
    Matthew 18:3, Matthew 19:14.
    Mark 10:14-15.
    Luke 18:16-17.
    John 3:3-4. ". . . Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? . . ."
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you do not understand
    Biblical new birth. Certainly not as I understand it.

    Little children . . . .
     
    #97 37818, Sep 5, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What is the New Birth ? 3

    Life must follow Imputed Righteousness, and that is what Paul means in Rom 5:18

    even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    Because of Christ's Death, those He died for receive both Justification and Life. Life flows to them that have been Justified or made righteous by the obedience of one Rom 5:19b, and for all whom He rose again because of their Justification Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

    And they receive the attending life for Prov 11:19

    As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.

    Prov 12:28

    In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

    This is Spiritual Life and Eternal Life, and again Rom 5:18 informs us that Both Justification and Life are the fruits of Christ's Death ! The word Justification here in the text

    I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

    II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

    So Life given validates being made Righteous, which Life is New Birth !
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Born again of incorruptible seed, by the Word of God !

    1 Pet 1:3,23

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible[seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Now understand something, before there can be a birth, life must exist, before a baby is born into the world Jn 16:21, they had life hidden inside the womb by creation power, and so one that is born again, a life they had already before it was manifested.

    In the text this birth is of incorruptible seed, even the word of God, the Logos of God, the Lord Jesus Christ in preincarnate and preexisting state, before His Incarnation in which He was made flesh Jn 1:1,14

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    14 And the Word[logos] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Now in Him as the Logos/Word of God was Life Jn 1:4

    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    And this Life which was in Him, was for men, but what men ? It was His Offspring, His Seed, which were all men who had been Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, His Church/Bride/Wife/Offspring, and they had a life in Christ the Logos, it was hidden in Him before all worlds Col 3:3

    3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    And Paul directed this comment to the Elect of God Col 3:12

    12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

    Now again, this Life hid in Christ, the Elect of God had in Him before the foundation, even before the life natural they had in Adam at the beginning of the world, for Christ was their Head before Adam was, which life they had in Adam was corruptible, it fell by temptation of the flesh, and any fellowship with God was lost by it, and any hope of a restored Life and Fellowship with God, is in that Life they have hid in Christ, the Logos of God, which comes by Election Union Eph 1:4. Being born again of incorruptible seed, the Word/Logos of God is only possible if one had been Chosen in Him before the foundation, and by that had Life in Him Jn 1:4

    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    And the Light is the Light of Life Jn 8:12

    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13
     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The New Birth/Spiritual Resurrection is one of the proofs/evidences that Christ died for us and was raised again for our Justification Rom 4:25 and that we were in Union with Him when He did it. This is what ensures our spiritual resurrection from being by nature dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5.

    This is whay Jesus told nicodemus that he must be born again Jn 3, for by telling him this it was a direct indication that nicodemus was one for whom He would die, and that being so, because He would rise from the dead, he must be born again or given new spiritual life from spiritual death.

    Again that's why Paul writes to the Ephesian Believers this Eph 2:1-6

    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    And why Peter wrote to believers saying 1 Pet 1:3

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


    Because they were in Union with Him when He rose from the dead after having been delivered for their offences Rom 4:25, So Christ's resurrection from the dead was theirs, and receiving spiritual life is proof of the same; this is so much so, that if one is not born again in this life, its a sure proof that they had no part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, He did not die and raise for them !
     
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