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Baptism questions

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Piper, Sep 28, 2022.

  1. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    1. Why is immersion better than pouring?

    2. Does the baptizer have to be ordained?

    3. Can para-church ministries baptize?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    4. Where in scripture can clear instructions on how to baptize be found?
     
    #2 kyredneck, Sep 28, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2022
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    1. Generally Baptists today baptize by immersion rather than pouring for a few reasons. For one, the word "baptize" (βαπτίζω) means "to immerse" or "dip". It can also mean to baste, to wash, among a few other things so this is a weak argument. Historically Baptists have baptized by pouring, often insisting on "living" or moving water. A second reason is tge description of Christ's baptism by John. Finally, many Baptist's take Baptism as a representation of dying, being buried, and raised in Christ (immersion best meets this symbolism).

    2. Yes and no (depends on what you mean by "ordained" and how you relate baptism to church membership).

    3. No. Baptism is associated with discipleship (Matthew 28).

    4. @kyredneck , you don't need to look to Scripture for specific instructions. Just ask me. :)
     
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  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is full of “word pictures” designed to quickly and clearly teach spiritual truths in ways that people can relate to …
    Shepherd - Sheep: God as the shepherd watching over, guiding, feeding and protecting His people (the flock).

    Branches -Vine: Jesus is the source (vine) and men are the branches that are grafted onto the vine and live, or cut off from Jesus (the vine) and wither and die.

    So here is another important WORD PICTURE for our being baptized into Jesus Christ:

    • Romans 6:4 [NASB95] 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

    • Colossians 2:12 [NASB95] 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
    Which is the clearer imagery for being buried with Christ in death and raised up with Christ to walk in the newness of life?

    1. being immersed completely under the water, suspended helpless for a moment and lifted out of the water to take a fresh breath as a new creation and walkout of the water as Christ walked out of the grave
    2. Standing in a church as water is poured over your head three times from a cup.
    That is why “immersion” is better than “pouring”.
     
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  5. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    Excellent
     
  6. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    Thanks. Good help here.
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ah, you know me, I'm one of them hardheads, er, Hardshells!

    To the Jews of that generation, it was associated with 'fleeing the wrath to come'.

    7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
    10 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt 3

    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Mk 16:16

    38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
    40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

    20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
    21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3
     
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  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    No offense, but where do you get "baste"? I can't even find it in Kittel.
     
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  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Others have done pretty well on this, so I'll just add that immersion is pretty clear in the examples of the NT when the method is clear in the context.
    1. John baptized people, "in the Jordan." (Matt. 3:6). No need for going in the river if you are just sprinkling or pouring.
    2. Christ was also baptized "in the Jordan" by John (Matthew 3:13-17). He then "came up out of the water."
    3. The Ethiopian eunuch and Philip did the baptism where there was a body of water, not just the water in a canteen. Then "they went down both into the river" (Acts 8:36-39).
    Nope.

    "Can" but should not.

    An additional note: in the early church immersion was the method until about the fourth century, when sometimes pouring was done for those who couldn't leave the home. I believe the earliest known church baptistry is in the ruins of the church at Ephesus (6th century, I think), and it was for immersion. My father saw it on a trip to the Holy Land. Here is a neat picture: Photo D869_95_795, from Dissolve

    "Natural bodies of water, baths, or reservoirs accessible to the public...and pools in homes or other private settings were ossibly all places for baptism at some point. All these could have allowed for sufficient water to immerse or totally wash the body, as the word 'baptism' implies" (Ancient Christian Worship, by Andrew B. McGowan, 2014, p. 144).
     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I can't remember the reference, but I did make an error. The word should have been "marinate", not "baste".

    I had looked up the pickle reference from Nicander of Colophon (197-170 BC) where he uses it for "dipping" and read a few early recipe examples. One used the word for "marinate".
     
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  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. Very interesting.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    .Jesus had His disciples do the immersions.
    John 4:1-2, ". . . When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples, ) . . .
     
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