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Featured One or both views are irrational.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Oct 29, 2022.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Is to believe a lie the rational thing to do?
     
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    If you do not wish to believe a falsehood, why then do you reject the truth of scripture that God adopted, chose, and elected his children from before the foundation of the world? You have no rational reason for holding the view you hold which goes against nearly every Christian on the planet, yet here you are telling all other Christians that their belief is a lie. I cannot tell you enough how arrogant you are being.
     
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that only calvinists are Christians. You have no rational reason for holding the view you hold which goes against nearly every Christian on the planet, yet here you are telling all other Christians that their belief is a lie. Take about arrogance.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I do not reject Holy Scripture. I reject interpertations that I understand to be contrary to to what the Holy Scripture teaches. Big difference.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Fine, yet your interpretation is not held by the vast majority of Christians. For you to imagine your view is rational while Arminian and Calvinist views are not rational...well...your thought is entirely irrational. Unless you deem yourself to be the world's greatest Bible interpreter ever in the existence of scholars, then you have to admit that you are making a rash statement in the OP.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    True. To the extent that the lost sinner's soul is SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

    What does that say? As long as they are, "in the natural"/ flesh,
    the lost sinner WILL NEVER SEEK AFTER GOD.

    I think you took a wrong turn, at, "dead".

    "That was the true Light,
    which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

    to the extent that they are, "CONDEMNED".

    "in the context of God’s enlightenment (John 1:9),"
    exclusively to CONDEMN them.

    John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him,
    and the world knew him not.


    This is WHERE GOD GIVES souls UP:

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
    against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
    who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


    19 Because that which may be known of God
    is manifest in them;

    because God hath shewed
    it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him
    from the creation of the world are clearly seen,

    being understood by the things that are made

    , even his eternal power and Godhead;

    so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God,

    (to the extent that they knew, "God Exists",
    but not with the capability of "Knowing" God, who is SPIRIT,
    when their Spirit is dead to God.)


    they glorified
    him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    24 Wherefore God also gave them up"





    "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin,
    and of righteousness, and of judgment:" = conviction (John 16:8)

    Amen. Whenever, wherever The Holy Spirit Comes,
    in The EFFECTUAL CALLING.

    "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

    John 12:35b,36;
    "because he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.


    And IS NOT, "DRAWN":

    36 While ye have light, believe in the light,
    that ye may be the children of light.


    and NOT those who "walk in darkness", who are NOT, "DRAWN".

    Those who are lost spend their life
    committing the unpardonable sin and die in that condition.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    With the O.P., what
    views are irrational,

    that you see in "Calvinism"?
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, there are some. Specify which ones you have in mind.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Regeneration before the faith. Unconditional election. Limited atonement at the exclution of all the lost.
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "Then they spoke
    the Word of the Lord to him",

    for him to be brought to Full Conviction,
    through The Word,
    The Law Teaching him of his sin,
    and Repentance,


    John 1:12-13; But as many as received him,
    to them gave he power
    to become the sons of God,
    even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood,
    nor of the will of the flesh,
    nor of the will of man,
    but of God.

    John 15:3; Now ye are clean
    through the word which I have spoken unto you.

    I Peter 1:23; Being born again,
    not of corruptible seed,
    but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
    which liveth and abideth forever.

    John 3:3; 5-8; Jesus answered and said unto him,
    Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
    Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
    Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
    he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
    and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth,
    and thou hearest the sound thereof,
    but canst not tell whence it cometh,
    and whither it goeth:

    so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Romans 9:16; So then it is not of him that willeth,
    nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    I Cor. 4:15; For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
    yet have ye not many fathers:
    for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

    Eph. 2:10; 4:24; For we are his workmanship,
    created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
    which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    And that ye put on the new man,
    which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    I Thess. 1:5; For our gospel
    came not unto you in word only,
    but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost,
    and in much assurance;

    as ye know what manner of men
    we were among you for your sake.

    Titus 3:5-6;
    Not by works of righteousness
    which we have done,
    but according to his mercy he saved us,
    by the washing of regeneration,
    and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    James 1:18; Of his own will begat he us
    with the word of truth,
    that we should be a kind of first fruits
    of his creatures.

    I Peter 1:23; Being born again,
    not of corruptible seed,
    but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
    which liveth and abideth forever.

    The foregoing scriptures prove
    without a shadow of a doubt
    that The Work of REGENERATION
    is wholly a Work of God the Holy Spirit,
    through The WORD
    which Enables the sinner
    to Spiritually REPENT and Hear the Gospel.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    None of those passages teach regeneration before faith.
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Remarkable.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Why would any of those passages teach diffrent in meaning than, Ephesians 1:13, ". . . In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, . . ."?
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You tell us. You made the OP with a wide, broad stroke of the brush and then left it. It's time for you to be specific or admit that you really have no clue and and simply were blustering.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your the one making this complaint, as if my minority views were all wrong.
    I believe in conditional immortality of the human soul. Otherwise the immortality of the soul is a false teaching.
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So, you have no doctrine to share and cannot articulate your rational belief, but all Arminians and Calvinists from all times are irrational in their theology.

    I hope you realize just how irrational you are.

    Conditional immortality of the soul? Break that down for us with Biblical proofs. I'd like to see your deep rational thoughts on this matter.

    What is obvious is that you are in a small minority and you cannot even articulate your rationale for your belief. Thus, this thread is just you being hyperbolic.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I have.

    You are here being irrational about this.

    One needs to deal with one point at a time. So where do you stand on the mortality of the soul? I hold the Biblical view the soul is mortal. An its immortality is conditional. Romans 6:23, Ezekiel 18:4, Matthew 10:28.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You have done nothing to show us your rational, systematic, theology. [Snip]
     
    #100 AustinC, Nov 10, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2022
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