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Featured How is God a Just God AND a Savior?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Nov 26, 2022.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't disagree more.
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't know.

    I thought the pastor honest, and just overstated or used poor wording in the article.

    You convinced me that Parker may not be the most honest pastor.

    That is not arrogance on my part, I never met the man. I'm just going off of your words and your insistence that Parkers understanding is the only understanding that addresses those issues.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I know. And that is sad.

    But if we love God with all our heart, soul, and strength then there is nothing lacking.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Then you ought to stop talking about him unless you first go and read and/or listen to more than just the few sentences that I posted in the OP. I think you are just being cantankerous. I understand, as I have described myself as being old, can be cantankerous, and I yell at clouds.
     
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    What does "ANE" stand for?
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am probably being more cantankerous than not.

    I will listen to him, and would visit the church 8f I were closer to hear a sermon.

    I do not object to his view. I was only noting that there are interpretations other than his that also present God as just and justifier.

    I believe that if we are going to bring in other views then we have to first understand those views and exactly how they address the issues of concern. Only then can we weigh each against Scripture.

    That said, it is not necessary to being in other views. Just state our view and explain why we believe it the best interpretation.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ancient Near Eastern.
     
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  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You are jumping to the assumption that the view in the OP is the correct one. Parker declared the word of God as he understood it, that does not mean that his view is the correct one.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I don't see you, when posting on this board, stating this or that and qualifying it by saying, "Now I may be totally wrong, but this is my view. My view might be the correct one or it may be totally wrong."
     
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I, unlike Parker, have not claimed my way is the only way. I have said that your way does not comport with scripture. I keep telling you to trust what the bible says, do you think what I am saying is wrong?
     
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  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you don't believe that Christ fulfilled all of the conditions for God's elect to be saved. You think that Christ is a "partial" Savior and the sinner has to "finish the job."
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Note I keep telling you to trust the bible and here you are not trusting the bible.

    Eph 1:13
    In Him {Christ Jesus} you also trusted,
    [when] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
    in whom {Christ Jesus} also,
    [what] having believed, {the gospel message}
    [what] you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, {you were saved}

    The lost sinner has to respond to the gospel message and God by His grace saves those that believe.

    Eph 2:8
    For by grace {of God}
    [what] you have been saved
    [how] through faith,
    and that not of yourselves;
    it is the gift of God,
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Note that Ken trusts the Bible, but not your interpretation of the Bible.
    *Ephesians 1:3-14*
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
    *Ephesians 2:1-10*
    And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    The dead in trespasses and sins sinner will respond to God, after God makes that sinner alive with Christ. Until then the person cannot respond.
    God causes. Man's response is the effect.

    "But God..."
     
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    We have discussed this before, and you are just repeating what has already been debunked. All you seem to do is post off the shelf arguments that have been shown to be bogus.

    Let me repeat: Since Jesus was the just for the unjust, he could not have been sin for sin. Please admit your view creates error.
     
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  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us Galatians 3:13

    Does that mean He became a curse offering?
     
    #95 Aaron, Dec 1, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I disagree. If the position is completely ridiculous, then ridicule is warranted and just.
     
  17. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    LOL. You are doing the very thing you are criticizing KenH for doing. Saying that your practice is the Christian practice, and his is not. IOW, your way is the way that glorifies God, and any other way does not. And pressed for the justification of your way, you would have to appeal to your understanding of a certain passage, and that understanding being the truth above any other, not allowing that there may be another understanding.

    Smacks a bit of hypocrisy, doesn't it?
     
    #97 Aaron, Dec 1, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
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  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It has, of course, only been debunked in your imaginaation.
    Reasoning with you never does any good, but for the benefit of others, the Lord Jesus was made sin. He was not made a sinner, but all the sins of all God's elect were laid upon Him by imputation (Isaiah 53:6; 1 Peter 2:24 etc.), and His perfect righteousness and obedience is credited to us who believe (Isaiah 61:10; Romans 5:18-19).

    All you seem to do is post stuff out of your own overheated imagination. Please admit that your view creates error..
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yet we cut you slack every time you post. ;)
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Except I am not.

    I agree that the righteousness of God is imputed.

    I am saying that there are other Christian interpretations that present God as just and justifier.

    I am also saying that anybody who has studied theology knows this because they would have encountered several positions presenting God as just and justifier.
     
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