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Listen to the Kingdom Rewards Conference

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by DeaconLew, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    DPT,

    "Hath" means "has", not "having".

    "Eternal life" must be divided according to context. (Just like "salvation".) Both phrases can be defined in either an absolute or a relative way. I have shown you many times that abiding in a ship will not get you saved in eternity.

    Lacy
     
  2. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Maybe if you abideth in the ship?
     
  3. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] I'm gonna take a trip, On the good ole gospel ship...
     
  4. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    You are confused brother.
    I was pointing out your error in assuming that "hath" menas having and I inserted it into the verse to show you YOUR error.

    "Hath" is in the present tense. He that HATH the Son HATH life. He that HATH NOT the son of god HATH NOT life.
    All present possession. This has NOTHING to do with our position in the Kingdom of God. It only qualifies US FOR THE RACE.

    Moving on.

    "I'm pressing on the upward way. New heights I gaining every day." Higher ground. Conquer it dear brothers!

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  5. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    av1611jim,

    Yes that's correct, 'hath' means present tense of have, it does not saying, 'already have' - past tense. It tells us, we must continue holding eternal life of our hope - Hebrews 3:6, and 14. Do not turn away from the hope, we must be endure all the way to the end - Matt. 10:22; Matt. 24:13.

    Just same with John 3:16 tells us, whosever believETH on Jesus Christ shall never go perish, but have eternal life. Word, 'believeth' mean to be continue believing or other wise we might be cut off if we do not abide in Christ - John 15:6; and stopped believing - Romans 11:19-23.

    I agree with you, that a lazy servant shall be cast in the outer darkness of Matt. 25:30 is a serious warning to us as Christians. Most baptists do not agree with you include Faust on Matt. 25:30. Because they saying Faust seems teaching against security salvation because of Christian will be cast into hell.

    Also, most baptists teaching on unconditional salvation, no matter how often we sinning or keeping on disobey God, still will go to heaven, never go into hell, that is security salvation.

    Faust shows us, many verses from the Bible warning us of conditional about our judgment of our Christian life. I agree with Faust on verses with the warnings of conditional. Yet, all of these verses does not prove of millennial exclusion, because of none of word in any verse mentioned, 'a thousand years'. Niether Matt. 25:30 saying that 'outer darkness' is a temporary. Most baptists are aware that Matt. 25:30 of 'outer darkness' is a obivously speak of eternality punishment. Even, Early Christians understood of Matt. 25:30 speaks of everlasting punishment.

    No way that you can prove Matt. 25:30 is a temperorary, because Christ does not saying that a lazy ssrvant shall be finally release or free out of the darkness after the judgment day. Neihter Christ saying of 'a thousand years' of Matt. 25:30.

    No question, I understand Matt. 25:30 is very, very clear speak of a lazy servant shall be cast away into the outer darkness is an eternality punishment and completed spearate from the Lord forever and ever.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  6. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    DPT;
    We are going to have to leave it here. We say those verses, and many others like them, are speaking of conditions required for entrance into the Kingdom of Christ at the end of the age of man.
    You say they indicate one could lose his salvation.
    I ask you one thing here, and I will then leave it alone.
    You are you father's son? (earthly father?) Yes?
    Can you ever do anything to change that? Can you suddenly say, I am not my father's son and then you are no longer his son?
    If you cannot change the fact that your father will always be your father then why do you say that God is any different? If you cannot change the fact of your birth here and now, why do you have the power to change the fact of your birth in eternity?

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  7. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Jim,

    Look at the parable of Father and Son of Luke 15:11-32. At the first place, father have two sons. A younger son wants to leave father, so he asks his father to give possession or will to him. Father gives it to him. And he walks away far away from his father. Father cannot force him to stay with him. That is young son's freewill decision. Yet, father loves his younger son so much. While younger son stay in the dark and sinning. He realizes that he is not worthy to be called father's son - Luke 15:18-19. So, he gets arise up, shows that he is repent of his sins. Then, he returns to his father. While son is on the way to home, his father have long-suffering, mercy, love his son. Father waits and watch for his son returns home. When he finally see his son returns. Does, he tells his son, "GO AWAY! I DON"T NEED YOU!" No, father doesn't do that. When he sees his son returns, immediately he run toward his son, and huge him. Son told him, that he have sinned and "and am NO MORE worthy to be called thy son." Younger son awares that he is lose. Father calls all servants to set up the party to celebrate his son. While party is on, older son returns from his work, he hears noisy, and asks one of the servants, what's going on? A servant told him, that his brother had return home. He become upset and jealous. Father calls his two sons together. Father says to older son, "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was DEAD, and is ALIVE AGAIN; and was LOST, and is FOUND."

    What IF... younger son remaineth in dark and sinning all the way to his death, never return home, he would be always be dead and lost. It speaks of spiritually, not physical.

    Jesus Christ spoken of this parable in his own words. Christ tells us, if we turn away from the Lord, and remain in dark and sinning, we might be dead and lost, if we do not repent of our sins.

    There is no evidence or proof in the Bible saying that a lazy seravnt shall be free out of the outer darkness, neither Matt. 7:23 & 25:41 saying a person shall be free out of the fire beyond the judgment day.

    Bible teaches us, there is the only ONE judgement day at Christ's coming at the end of the age, not two or three future judgment days according dispensationalism teaching.

    Your teaching of millennial exclusion have lot of problems, because none of these promise us find anywhere in the Bible telling us that a lazy servant shall be free out of the outer darkness, hell, "second death", etc.

    You should be aware that Matt. 7:21-23 is speak of the great white throne. Matt. 25:14-30 is speak of the great white throne, Matt. 25:31-46 is speak of the great white throne.

    Matt. 7:21-23 do not saying that a person shall be finally release or free out of hell after this judgment day. Matt. 25:26-30 do not saying that a lazy servant shall be finally release or free out of the outer darkness after this judgment day. Matt. 25:41,46 do not saying that a person shall be release or free out of the fire after this judgment day.

    Obivously, all of these are speak of everlasting, everlasting, everlasting punishment at the judgement day. None of these mentioned are so called, 'temporary' punishment. Because Christ never saying it is a temporary. You just added it unto God's Word, or make-up =, not actual what Christ saying. Sorry to say it. You have to accept what Christ actual saying these, agree with all of these what Christ said. Why cannot you accept Christ's own words?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  8. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    I do accept Christ's words. At face value without changing them into "what they actually" say. His words say what they say. Period.
    Mt 5:26
    Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

    Obviously, Jesus seems to think there is coming a time when the disobedient shall come OUT OF their punishment.

    By I digress. And you did not answer my question at all. I asked YOU if you could ever become unborn by your earthly father. You dodged it because it destroys your method of re-interpreting what Jesus SAID.

    And round and round we go. As I said; I will leave it here if you can answer that one question. You cannot. So...

    Have a great day brother DPT.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  9. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Jim,

    You always stress on Matt. 5:26 as 'proof' that a person shall get out of the jail till pay the debts first is sound like as purgatory comparing like as what Roman Catholic teaching. Matt. 5:26 does not discuss about beyond our death at the judgment day, the context of Matt. 5:22-26 talking about to forgive one another while we are living. Christ's point is, we must immediately forgive person, who sin against you- vs. 25.

    Being cast into prison does taking into literally, but illustration that Christ tells us the point that we must to forgive one another immediately. Your logical of Matt. 5:26 does not prove to us that support millennial exclusion. Same with Matt. 18:23-35 talking about to forgive one other. Matt. 18:24 does not prove of millennial exclusion teaching. Remember the context of Matt. 18:23-35 is use as illustration as what Christ taught us to forgive one other with compassion. The context of Matt. 18:23-35 have do nothing with millennial exclusion teaching. This is talking about to forgive one other while we are living.

    By the way, you seems avoid many passages as what Christ actual saying. You quote only Matt. 5:26, and probably Matt. 18:23-35 too.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
    Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    Likewise, also what? Yes the point is to forgive your brothers, but if you don't, likewise, also what? Likewise, also you shall be delivered to the tormentors, till you pay all that is due. You cannot divorce the warning from the command to forgive your brothers. The warning is literal, as is the qualification of till you pay all that is due.
     
  11. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Matt. 18:34-35 give us the picture that we ought to forgive one other, or, if we do not forgive one another, neither God would forgive us till we forgive one other first, then God would forgive us.

    This passage does not prove us of the "hint" that millennial exclusion is fact. You and others just making up adding unto God's Word that passage is speak of millennial exclusion, Christ never saying it. Most baptists understand Matt. 18:34-35 talking about forgive. Also, Matt. 18:23-35 - Christ uses this as illustration, the lesson, that if we do not forgive one other, then God will not forgive us, till we have to forgive person first, so God will forgive us. This passage deals with living and spiritual practical, not beyond death practical such as purgatory or millennial exclusion.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  12. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    No sir!
    Yes sir!
    No sir!
    Yes sir!
    uh uh
    uh huh
    no sir
    yes sir

    Brother DPT;
    I will say one thing for you. You are consistent with "spiritualizing" what you don't like.
    I find it very strange that you are willing to accept the fact that God in Christ WARNS believers to live holy or else lose your salvation and burn in hell for eternity. But on the other hand you are totally unwilling to believe the fact that God can and will extend those warnings and consequences beyond the grave and into the Kingdom. But why should I find that strange? You have said you do not even believe in a literal Kingdom in the first place. :rolleyes:

    So...this is all pointless until we can come to a consensus about the Kingdom. And NO. I do not want a lesson on how the Kingdom is figurative and spiritual.

    Good day sir.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  13. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    For those who might be interested in hearing the conference, nearly all the sermons are now available online at http://www.kingdombaptist.org

    I highly reccommend you listen to Brother Al Williams. He is a 3rd generation Baptist preacher in Jamaica. It's some good make-you-wanna-shout preachin'.


    These sermons are online.
    Arlen Chitwood
    Lacy Evans
    Jason Perry
    Tracy Daniels
    Jim Brooks
    Greg Dzula
    Al Williams
    Joey Faust
     
  14. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    I re-reading my post of April 2 at 3:41 am it appears that my second sentence says that conditional salvation is a fact.

    That is an error on my part. Please forgive me for mis-speaking.

    I do not believe that at all. What I meant was to say that DPT assumes it as fact but will spiritualize the other verse we give in support of ME.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  15. DeaconLew

    DeaconLew New Member

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    I am copying this from another topic and posting here. I would like to make clear that this teaching, albeit frightening, hard to believe, difficult to accept is never-the-less what the bible teaches. Either the bible teaches that we are saved by grace in eternity or we are saved by work+grace.

    ==== Copy from other topic ====
    First of all what evidence is there that your child is yours besides the name he/she has? There is nothing that would indicate that your child is yours besides a) their profession and b) your confirmation. If you are a hard-worker, that does not mean that your child will automatically be. If you live godly that does not mean that your child will automatically be. We often feel like we need to "protect God's honor," when we have not been told that is necessary on our part. Jesus said clearly in John 3, the wind blows and no man know where it came or where it is going. This is in reference to being "born again." Even in the term "born again" this suggests that there has been some prior birth to be compared to. The only prior birth that has been experienced before being "born again" is natural child birth. Hence I refer back to my question, what outward manifestation is there that your child is yours? The answer, nothing.

    With regard to John 15, Jesus is saying that as believers if we intend on bearing fruit, which is not an option for the believer, then we must abide in him. Notice he says:
    John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me , and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
    Jesus is not say he that is born again will bear much fruit but rather he that abideth in me. Not every believer will abide in him as referenced in the verse. If every believer would abide there would be no need to say "he that abideth," for every believer does.

    There are lots of warnings for the believer that does not bear fruit. Christ is not holding their salvation ransome if they do not bring them forth. Neither should we in our theology.
    ==== End of copy ====

    We are told over and over to seek reward. I have seen posts here from "D r's" asking such questions as "What sin will I be punished for if Christ...?" Let your children try that with you. "Dad I thought once I was your child I was free to all the benefits of those that are good, even though I will not be." Feeding our children is a responsibility of the parent. That does not mean the child will eat. Proper excersize of discipline is the responsibility of the parent. That does not mean the child will "receive" it. (Receive: Allow it's intended purpose to be realized in the receipient).

    Like children, we as believers are obligated to certain priveledges, nourishment (both kinds), guidence and when necessary discipline. Does this mean that when we do those things that displease the father he is obligated to over look them? Would you in your children?

    Why do we think that we can, somehow, tie God's hand behind his back and think we can get away with anything. One might say "When a person is saved they won't misbehave any more." We certainly do not see the fruit of such rotten theology. Everyone that takes that position justifies some sin in their life. Why? Because 'they' haven't crossed the line yet. You know, "continue in sin" (Hebrews 10 in all perVersion).

    My point is most believer act like a bunch of mulish babies. Stubborn, hard hearted complacent. You say, "You're being judgmental!" Yep! I judge that man is stupid and God is the only one that is smart. Men who "appear" smart are those that have been spending time with Jesus.
    Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

    NOTE:
    The folks that marvelled were the ones that wanted everyone to think they were smart, but in actuality were proven to be very ignorant.

    Once Saved Always Saved
    Accountable For Our Actions

    What say ye?
    -Deacon Lew
     
  16. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Brother Lewis;
    Very well presented. Thank you.

    I propose two possibilities.
    Either;
    a) We will get howls of "Discipline is for this life only"
    or;
    b) God has promised that they who are in Christ do not come into condemnation.

    Both of which will not really address your premise, hence we will once more go round and round. [​IMG]

    And the Church of the Living God will suffer reproach for its lack of relavence (sp) to the culture.
    Either the Church ( and people individually) get real and purge out the evil within itself, or the worldly and carnal will continue to "poo-poo" our message that God EXPECTS His people to live obediently, holy and seperated.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  17. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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  18. DeaconLew

    DeaconLew New Member

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    Carlaimpinge,
    Do you have any children? What is the evidence that your children are yours? If they are righteous (obedient) does that "prove" they belong to you? What if they are not righteous? Does that mean they are not yours?

    Dispensational blah blah blah. Are you saved by the unmerited favour of the Lord or are you adding to the Lord's (un)finished work by your own righteousness? I am not a calvinist nor armenian. Neither of these "teachings" are consistent with the whole of scripture. And speaking of that, have you read the entire bible? The whole of scripture teachs that once a person is a child he is forever a child even if disobedient and displeasing to father. (Remember, the disobedient child was taken outside the camp and stoned to death! Deu 21:18-21) The scripture teaches that a person who had actually seen the power and glory of God would still (after all the evidence presented) complain and muumur against him.

    Plain and simple, once again. We are saved in eternity by the works of Christ. Cost me nothing cost him everything. It was necessary, though unmerited on my part. Let God be praised!
    After I am saved, just like growing up at home with mommy and daddy, I have to be obedient to commands given. IF I am obedient, at the end of the (prophetic) week I will get an allowance. IF I am NOT (obedient) I will not get the allowance, but suffer the loving (albeit terrible) rod of my father.

    If you have children, or were raised by godly parents this will make sense to you. I am not questioning or doubting your ability to reason, just that some folks don't grasp certain things 'cause they cannot identify with them.

    What say ye?
    -DeaconLew
     
  19. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    DeaconLew,

    Yes, I think that I read it at least once.

    Are you going to argue from your “Uncle Joe-Will Rogers” philosophical opinions about “childrearing”, or from the BOOK?

    I certainly hope that you don't think the Holy Scriptures" are blah, blah, blah. If you don't grasp that blah, blah, blah, you CERTAINLY won't be able to teach the gospels or the Pauline epistles, which is quite apparent from your posts.

    No my friend, you are teaching CALVINISM throughout. (The whole of scripture teaches......that’s your UNSCRIPTURAL blah, blah, blah.) I gave the SCRIPTURES which teach otherwise. GRACE AND WORKS.

    Your opening statement is not only incompetent; it is erroneous falsehood in APPLICATION to doctrinal truth of Pauline teaching for members of the body of Christ.

    OBEDIENT Christians are those who have BELIEVED the gospel.

    Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

    Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

    2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    THE OBEDIENCE IS FAITH AND BELIEF of the gospel. No works, son. There are NO DISOBEDIENT Christians, LIKE “any of my or your disobedient” children.

    All SONS OF GOD are RIGHTEOUS, due to “imputed” righteousness. (Rom.4) They HAVE the Spirit of God which GUARANTEES their righteousness. (Rom.3) Unrighteous CHRISTIANS is a “ruse” put forth by you boys who can’t grasp GRACE verses WORKS, dispensationally. THERE ARE NO UNRIGHTEOUS MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST. Ah man, you mean we’re back to the SCRIPTURAL blah, blah, blah?

    Again, plain and simple. If you can’t distinguish GRACE FROM WORKS, you can’t teach the gospels or distinguish them from the Pauline epistles. That’s called “rightly dividing the word of truth”, which is a PAULINE PRINCIPLE of scriptural fact.

    UNDER GRACE, God deals with us as children. (Rom. 8) UNDER WORKS, God deals with those WHO CAN BE children, “if” they have FAITH and WORKS.

    Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

    Those children are JEWISH CHILDREN, who are PHYSICAL DESCENDANTS of Abraham. (Heb.2) Any verse you quote from the GOSPELS will pertain to them for they were UNDER WORKS then, AS THEY WILL BE "again"!. (See Rev.12,22)
     
  20. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    So you are saying that you can fornicate, drink to riotous excess, murder innocent babies in the womb and still be pleasing to the Lord at the judgment seat of Christ (well done, good and faithful servant!) Dispensationally speaking, that is false teaching. You need to grasp fear of God and accountability. You said:
    Believers will be counted righteous at the great white throne, regardless of their filthy works. Even if I pulled your feeding tube, I would be righteous in the sight of God on that die, because my sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. But that does not imply that I will be found righteous by the one who paid the price of those sins at the judgment seat of Christ.

    Hebrews 10
    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    This speaks of believers who are sanctified by the blood of the covenant, despising that blood and sinning wilfully. You can sin wilfully, you know that? I'm sure you do, I know it all too well. Having the Holy Spirit in you does not guarantee you will live a holy life. You will still be held accountable for your works. Yes I see that this is written to Hebrews (saved Hebrews) so I will give it to you in Corinthians.
    1 Corinthians 3:16-17
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    Jesus told us how to defile the temple.
    Mark 7:20-23
    20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
    21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
    22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
    23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

    The only man that can defile the temple is the temple himself. And whoever defiles that temple, God will destroy. Jew? Greek? Baptist? God is no respecter of persons.
     
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