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Parable of the Virgins.

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by weeping prophet, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    From the "Food for Thought" department:

    Did anyone stop to think that parables are not supposed to be allergorized? I think one of hte major interpretive "sins" is that people look for things that were never intended. The parables are meant to teach one truth; they are probably not meant to be atomized with each individual thing representing something. That is where things break down. The parable of the virgins is meant to teach that people are supposed to be ready at all times for the return of the Lord. To read anything else into is entering territory that is speculative at best and risks missing the true point of the parable.
     
  2. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Larry, I'm sure you are right in many ways. On the other hand, I've noticed that many times the Lord seems to specialize in details.

    So, again, I enjoy thinking about the things of the Lord and I do pray He gives each of us the wisdom as needed when questions are asked of us.
     
  3. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    Good point pastor Larry,
    I would totally agree that caution must be used when allergorizing a parable. When Jesus told parables, he sometimes gave a interpretation. In others, like this one, he leaves it as it stands. I believe the truth that this parable teaches is that we, as disciples of Jesus, should be prepared and watchful for His return. Now if we made no parallels to who is who, in this parable, I believe we would miss some of it's teaching. When we do so it must be consistent with the whole of scripture. By the way, the reason I posted this thread is because of the conflicting interpretations of many Baptist commentators and theologins. The interpretations are close, all in all, but differ in some points. Matthew Henry says the oil is "Grace." This thread says the oil is the "Spirit."(pretty close) George Whitfield says the oil is "the principle of a true living faith and holiness in their hearts." (Pretty close to the Spirit) Again, point well taken. I will ensure the interpretation is true to the whole of the revelation. in Christ,WP
     
  4. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    In Barclay's commentary he notes, "that as is the case with many of Jesus parables, this parable has an immediate and a local meaning and a wider and a universal meaning." You are refering to the local meaning, in that the Jews were unprepared for the Messiah, but in any case it was their lack of faith in Jesus that made them unprepared, not that they lacked following the works of the law. blessings, WP
     
  5. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    wp,

    One aspect of this parable that seems to have gone unnoticed is that all the virgins are sleeping. When we place this parable alongside the other parables in Matthew, we are given a very eschatological meaning. The virgins are asleep signifying that all of them are dead. At the coming of the bridegroom (return of Christ), all awake, some have prepared and some have not prepared. If we stay with the preparation as seen in other Matthean parables (Wedding Feast w/ Dude without wedding garment, weeds in wheat, sheep and goats, etc.), this is a very ethical preparation and not our typical baptist, "be prepared with Jesus in your heart." The best parallel to this parable is the wise and foolish builders from Matthew 7 (notice the use of wise and foolish in both parables). The one who builds his house on the rock is the one who has done the will of the father (this is the meaning of the parable in context, check it out). All of the bride's maids are risen and some have oil (done the will of the Father) and some have not (not done the will of the father). The oil could be something with HS if it is seen as a sanctifying force, but this is not a big Matthean theme and would not seem to be present.

    As to the question raised by Larry about the unity of meaning for parables, most scholars, including some very good evangelicals (most notablly, Craig Blomberg), have once again began to realize that parables are polyvalent. One of the major reasons for this move is this very parable. Granted, some allegorizing is quite nutty (I need only point to some of the previous posts in this thread), but the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater. If you want to discuss this idea, it would make a great thread of its own. There is some great history to this approach that could be discussed.
     
  6. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    wp, this is getting fascinating. Would you mind posting what you finally write on this for us? Or at least email me with it? Thanks. And thank you to Daniel, too, for that post.

    Helen

    [email protected]
     
  7. Me2

    Me2 New Member

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    If Your Implying An Escatalogical Expression Within This Parable...My Opinion Is That The Message Is Universal in Time But Limited To A Selective Group Of Peoples. He Was Only Expressing The Relationship Between The Responsible and Irresponsible Citizens within The Kingdom Of God.

    That Of All Of The People God Has Drawn To Himself. That These People Have That Choice To Be A Wise Virgin or Foolish Virgin..In Their Own Lifetime...until The End of Their Physical Life.

    There Is No More To This Message In My Opinion.
    Choose To Abide, or Not To Abide, in Gods Kingdom "of Heaven on Earth"....Until Its Over.

    Me2
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    U welcome.

    May the Spirit be your guide with the sermon.

    HankD
     
  9. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    Daniel, thank you for the post, duly noted.

    Helen,
    I am still preparing for this message, I trust that the Spirit would be my guide and lead me into all truth. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No matter how I preach this message, I preach Christ crucified. For Christ did not send me to Baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.1Cor.1:17 I will post a copy of the message as soon as I can.Thank you, for your intrest and for your help.
    God be gracious to you all, WP
     
  10. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    Some truth that is in this parable,
    1.The context: Jesus is speaking privately, to His disciples, to answer their questions.24:3 The disciple's question was threefold, "when will these things be" refering to the destruction of the temple.Second, "what will be the sign of your coming.".Third, "sign of the end of the age.". (Note: He was not speaking to the religious leaders. He was speaking to men who were not able to go behind the Temple veil.)The place of the discourse is the Mount of Olives.(Note:Acts1:11-12)Same place as the ascent.
    From this context, I can do no other than believe that Jesus is refering to events in the future. The parable of the vigins is given, that we might have a glimpse into the future affairs of the Kingdom of heaven. Hence in 25:1 Jesus says "Then". From verse 13 we can conclude that it refers to the coming of the,"Son of Man".
    Truth number 1. Jesus is coming back.
    Truth number 2. Our curiosity, as to when these things will take place, is not as important as being prepared for them. verse 13
    Truth number 3. The way to be prepared, is to know the Bridegroom, and to meet Him with a lit lamp when he comes.
    KEY VERSE:25:12
    Matthew 7:23.... 7:24 John 5:38, 6:40 Rev.19:6-9
    Whew! still not done, WP.
     
  11. Me2

    Me2 New Member

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    Hi WP,
    Did You Happen To Notice The similarities Of The Parable That Was Spoken Before The Ten Virgins...(Mat 24:45-51) The unfaithful Servant....

    The Two Groups Of People.. abiding and not abiding.

    I Would Mention In Mat 25 after your Parable Of Ten Virgins..The Parable Of The Talents and Even The Remainder of Chapter 25 is The Same..How Jesus Reacts To Both Groups As Individuals..Blessing To The Abiding and Cursing To The Non Abiding.
    We Are The Sheep and Goats..We Are The Wise and Foolish..We Are The Abiding and Non Abiding..and Now He Identifies His People....Faithful To The Right Hand and and Non Faithful To The Left Hand.
    Of Course We All Recognize That Jesus Is Judging Our Activities and Choices While We Are Alive And Interracting In A Relationship With Christ.
    Although Its Sealed By God Himself Or Our Redemption. These Verses Speak Of Interraction Between Lord and Servant..God and Man..We Cant Lose Our Salvation but We Can Hinder Our Understanding and Participation in The Joy Of Our God.

    The Giving and Taking Away Of Gifts,Talents and Knowledge are in the Hands Of The Judge. The "Allowing or Disallowing" of Participating in Fellowship with Him. Of Being In The Glory Of His Presents and our Brothers and Sisters.

    I Myself Only See The Immediate and Nothing That Concerns The Future State After Death.
    and Only Jesus As The Judge Of "His" Servants.This Is About Gods Family. HisChildren..
    And It Has Nothing To Do With People Whom God Hasn't Drawn To Himself. These Judgement Are Within Gods Household.

    So.... Do You See The Similarities?

    [​IMG]
    Me2
     
  12. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    Me2,

    First Of All, Why Do You Post With Capital Letters At The Begining Of Your Words?

    I really not exactly sure what you are talking about sometimes; however, I think you are saying this is about our actions and God's separation of us in this life. Am I right? We have to get this straight before we can debate this subject.
     
  13. Graceforever

    Graceforever New Member

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    Wade in a little deeper Pastor Larry, the water's fine..... [​IMG]
     
  14. Me2

    Me2 New Member

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    Hi Daniel,
    Caps At The First Of All Words Is A Habit. I taught myself how to type. If I try Real hard I can catch myself and stop its occurance temporarily. Debating is a No-no. Its easier to agree to disagree. My opinion, Your opinion...We both win. If theres ever a question with my opinion...Ask. Ill Explain myself clearer.

    God Chooses Whom He Draws. He Chooses To Impute Righteousness. Its his Program..
    He Uncovers the veil of our understanding..He introduces us to the law..He introduces us to The propitiator. We Have NO Say-so in the matter. We're chosen for His Purposes, not ours. Within His Family are two Kinds Of Mindsets of His Children. Obedient and Disobedient. Abiding and Not Abiding. Again its His Program and his methods..There is Never Seperation From God. He Loves Us No Matter What We Choose..Right or Wrong. Its Our Mindset and understanding That We create within our own Carnal Reasonings,.... the Idea of seperation From An Infinite God that Loves His creation Infinitely.

    By The Way..What Is does "polyvalent" mean ?

    Me2
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    Me2,

    Polyvalent means that something can have more than one meaning; however, this does not mean that it can mean anything. Interpretation is bounded by certain things: authorial intent, literary genre, context, etc.

    I understand what you are saying now, but we disagree. OK.

    What I am concerned about is not your theological presuppositions (I have plenty of my own), but how should we use our theology to interpret texts? I would say that we first understand the text without our theology, then once the parable, psalm, etc. has a chance to use its own voice, we can take the parable's voice and apply it through out theological appropriation. This allows for the boundaries to be observed while also allowing for relevant application.
     
  16. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    I would just like to reitterate an earlier statement. This parable is not about being prepared for the 2nd coming, but is about being obedient. The virgins are not doing something wrong by being asleep; they all fall asleep. The oil is not about "having Jesus in your heart" it is about living a life that can stand up to judgement. This should warn us to be careful about the "Watchful Servant" parable is not mixed too much with the "10 Bridesmaids."
     
  17. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    I really do agree with much of what you say Me2. I would only add that the five foolish virgins had a profession of Christ on their lips, as represented by the Lamp. They were members of the Church, as represented by them being bridesmaids. You could not tell the foolish virgins from the wise, they did the same things, until they ran out of oil, and were left in the dark. So the big question is, what is the "oil." What is the difference between those who are actually following Christ and those who seem to be, but are not. I believe the answer is, those truly following Christ, have a profession on their mouth, are members of His body, but most importantly, have the inward workings of grace in their heart. The heart, causes the light of Christ to shine from our lives, as we love, as He loved. We know Him, therefore we love Him. They think they know Him, but He does'nt know them. Verse 12 The only way we can have this inward grace, is when it is applied to our heart by our faith in Jesus. The foolish virgins... alot of action, not enough heart. The wise... same actions, but a heart that could not be spent. Who's ready for the second coming? Bless you and may you have peace, WP

    Daniel,
    Thank you for your comments. Have caused me to be very careful with handling this text. Do you think I'm on track? Blessings and grace, WP
     
  18. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    wp,

    I think you are exactly right about what is the pivotal point in the parable: the "oil". However, remember that this parable (as are many parables in Matthew) is ordered toward following Jesus by doing his commandments. The Jesus we see in Matthew is so concerned about profession and heart as he is with practice. The original readers of Matthew were dealing with a great deal of persecution and apostacy seems to have been a major concern for Matt. I think that it would be most accurate to say that "those who do the will of the Father" are those who profess faith in the face of this pesecution (there's your profession: it would make a dandy illustration for your sermon if you could weave it into the fabric of your argument). There is nothing quite like preaching about Jesus' sermons. In this instance, you really have an opportunity to point wishy-washy believers to an authentically lived Christian life. [​IMG]
     
  19. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    The only life that can stand up to judgement is one that has," believed in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus."Romans10:5-13 So then Jesus "in your heart" will stand up to judgement, and will cause us to do good works. Blessing, WP
     
  20. The two classes of watchers represent the two classes who profess to be waiting for their Lord. They are called virgins because they profess a pure faith. By the lamps is represented the word of God. The psalmist says, "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto may path."

    Ps. 119:105. The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. Thus the Spirit is represented in the prophecy of Zechariah. "The angel that talked with me came again," he says, "and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof; and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? . . . Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. . . . And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? . . . Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Zech. 4:1-14.

    From the two olive trees the golden oil was emptied through the golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick, and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary. So from the holy ones that stand in God's presence His Spirit is imparted to the human instrumentalities who are consecrated to His service. The mission of the two anointed ones is to communicate to God's people that heavenly grace which alone can make His word a lamp to the feet and a light to the path. "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts." Zech. 4:6.

    In the parable, all the ten virgins went out to meet the bridegroom. All had lamps and vessels for oil. For a time there was seen no difference between them. So with the church that lives just before Christ's second coming. All have a knowledge of the Scriptures. All have heard the message of Christ's near approach, and confidently expect His appearing. But as in the parable, so it is now. A time of waiting intervenes, faith is tried; and when the cry is heard, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him," many are unready. They have no oil in their vessels with their lamps. They are destitute of the Holy Spirit.

    Without the Spirit of God a knowledge of His word is of no avail. The theory of truth, unaccompanied by the Holy Spirit, cannot quicken the soul or sanctify the heart. One may be familiar with the commands and promises of the Bible; but unless the Spirit of God sets the truth home, the character will not be transformed. Without the enlightenment of the Spirit, men will not be able to distinguish truth from error, and they will fall under the masterful temptations of Satan.
     
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