Bible teaches total abstinence from alcoholic beverages

This is a total misrepresentation.

νηφάλεος, νηφάλιος
nēphaleos nēphalios
nah-fal'-eh-os, nay-fal'-ee-os
From G3525; sober, that is, (figuratively) circumspect: - sober, vigilant.

Nothing to do with alcohol.

 

No, Optional, it's not.

From Strong's:
3524 νηφαλεος nephaleos nay-fal'-eh-os or νηφαλιος nephalios nay-fal'-ee-os

from <3525>; ; adj

AV-sober 2, vigilant 1; 3

1) sober, temperate
1a) abstaining from wine, either entirely or at least from its immoderate use
1b) of things free from all wine, as vessels, offerings

Unfortunately, my Vine's doesn't give a definition for the word "vigilant" in 1 Tim 3:2.

 

It has always been my understanding to totally abstain from the use of alcoholic beverages. It was the understanding of the evangelical church until a few years ago when some members found it socially acceptable to imbibe in "moderation".

I cannot argue with those who feel it is ok. It is more a personal question in my mind, but as for me and my house,,,we shall avoid any question of approval for this useless and harmful brew.

As I have said on other threads, the question of drinking alcohol would not even be raised in an evangelical church 30 years ago.

Cheers in the Lord,

Jim

 

Don said:

1) sober, temperate
1a) abstaining from wine, either entirely or at least from its immoderate use
1b) of things free from all wine, as vessels, offerings

Ah, but note that the primary definition of the term does allow for moderation. "Temperate" does not mean "abstinent"; and 1a does say that "abstaining . . . from its immoderate use" is within the semantic range of nephaleos.

It seems to me that nephaleos does allow for the possibility of moderate drinking. Moreover, those who say that the Bible's position is complete abstinence must still deal with the many passages that commend, or even command, the use of wine.

Jim1999 said:

[Abstinence] was the understanding of the evangelical church until a few years ago when some members found it socially acceptable to imbibe in "moderation".

True as far as it goes, but if you're going to argue from history then it must also be pointed out that the total abstinence position is itself of relatively recent origin, coming into being around 100-150 years ago, born along with the Social Gospel. Before that, I believe you will find that the Church was pretty much unanimous in condemning drunkenness, but not moderate use of wine and alcohol. One of our local universities has a dissertation on this subject in the library, which I will get around to reading one of these days.

[ October 18, 2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

If you read "most of the 14 pages", you certainly would have come across the discussion about 1 Cor 8 and Rom 14, where it teaches *exactly* that.

 

Keep those 4 verses firmly in mind, throw in "James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:" and then think real hard about Christ's actions in John 2.

 

and Pauls suggestion to Timothy in 1 Tim. 5:23:

Also, let's go back more than 30 years to the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message. It stated:

It was not until after Prohibition that SBC churches stopped using wine. It was used in most churches before then. Our aversion to wine came as a result of Prohibition. It is legalism.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Chris

 

Ack! Did we really need another thread on alcohol??? Isn't this horse dead already?

 

Actually Romone16, if you paid attention, the head still moves when it is kicked.

 

Nepho in the Bible does not mean to abstain from wine. When it's referring to the drink, it referrs to abstaining from intoxication.

When not referring to wine, it means to be calm and collected in spirit, temperate, dispassionate, circumspect.

Don't even get me started on Jesus drinking passover wine and sharing it with his desciples!

In other words, we're to refrain from getting drunk.

We need another thread about this topic like we need a hole in the head.

[ October 18, 2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Co. 6:17--7:1).
Agreed. Wine in the Bible has been a symbol of sacrifice and putity, and isnot considered an unclean thing.

Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Th. 5:22).
Agreed. While drunkenness is evil, consumption of wine is not.

Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Ro. 14:21).
The verse reads "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." So unless we're to become vegetarians, I'll venture to say this is being taken out of context.

Wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Pr. 20:1).
The word here in Hebrew is yayin which contextually here in intoxication, not wine itself.

[ October 18, 2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

Don't get me started!!

Indulging in alcoholic beverages--is an insult to the Holy Spirit living inside a born again believer! It is offensive to Him to whom must be in total control or He will have no control.

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Is it an "insult" to the Holy Spirit to calim He was wrong to inspire Paul to instruct Timothy to take wine? {IF this is the Word of God, the HS did inspire it.}

And no, we don't need another thread about alcohol, but who cares? We might as well sloth our time away with more of this than with the other hot topics... KJVO, 'tithing' v. cheerful giving, divorce, the evils of women wearing pants....

 

Ransom, go back and look at who I was addressing, and what they posted.

[ October 18, 2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Thanks Don, my mistake. That's one of the problems with these non-threaded message boards; it's more difficult to tell what is in response to what.

My point does stand on its own, nonetheless (contra Psa's assertion the word stands for total abstinence).

 

Don,
Ransom made my point. I was in a hurry this morning. The fact is the use of the word "sober" in I Timothy 3:11 has nothing to do with alcohol. The funny thing is even if it did - noone's arguing you shouldn't stay sober.

I've stated before I don't drink, but to say it's not in the Bible is really doing a revisionist job.
Question to all who oppose drink. If I or my wife want to have a glass of wine in the privacy of our own home, what is it to you or anyone else? How does this cause a brother to stumble or whatever?

By the way psalms,
the same Strong's you used earlier says the wine Jesus created was alcoholic - but I await your post otherwise for enlightenment.

Also, I have noticed noone endorsing drunkeness of any sort. So why do people continually trot out verses to do with staying sober or drunkeness when noone advocate's that position?

[ October 18, 2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Optional ]

 

Because it's more dramatic. I wonder why these same people aren't also against eating because gluttony is a sin.

Psalm1453, when you address John 2, keep in mind that I am not trying to argue that Christ drank wine there, but that from your verses you posted (Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Co. 6:17--7:1), Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Th. 5:22), Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Ro. 14:21), and Wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Pr. 20:1)), in John 2 we see Christ creating an unclean thing, creating the appearance of evil, potentially causing others to stumble, and promoting a mocker and a deceiver. And if you consider James 1:13, if drinking wine is a sin, Jesus created one great big temptation for those present.

Suppose you were at that wedding. Would you be crying "Heretic!" or "Hallelujah!"?

 

Indulging in alcoholic beverages--is an insult to the Holy Spirit living inside a born again believer! It is offensive to Him to whom must be in total control or He will have no control.

Then how do you explain the consumption of wine by Jesus and the Apostles?

It's abundantly clear biblically that wine is not an issue. Intoxication is.

If you want to be literal and say that wine is forbidden, then, there in the bible does it forbid bourbon or vodka? It doesn't. Therefore, according to your literal interpretation, drunkenness is forbidden (which we all accept) and wine is forbidden (which we dispute), but other alcoholic beverages are allowed, so long as consumption of them does not exceed the limit of being intoxicated. *** taunting edited****

[ October 18, 2002, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]