If Calvinism is true...

Calvinest:

KJMatt.18


"1": At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

"2": And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

"3": And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted (means to become innocent) , and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

"4": Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child , the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

"5": And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

"6": But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. "7": Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Enough said: JP, Calvibaptist, Rappon and others, you want scripture here it is!!!

And JP your attack on me is hogwash, you want to handpick your scriptures and not except it all !!!!

 

If they die, they have a sin nature. That is Romans 5:12-14.

No one is innocent before God. That is Romans 3:19.

 

Honest, Brother Bob. I like your passion. But where, in this passage, does it say anything about these little children going to heaven?

 

2Pe 3:9 not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

How many sins did Jesus die for, whole world, "WHY", that the world through him might be saved.

Then "predestination" by the sovereign will of God doesn't exit, the choice belong to man, "Foreknowledge", of his choices, yes.

Either that or you're so blinded you can't "SEE" what we're saying.

God said he called, not the preacher, but they still wasn't chosen, "WHY".

You're right, it can't exit, and NO, I understood your post "perfectly", "YOU" don't understand what you're saying.

All the chosen are called, but all those God said he called are not chosen, "WHY"??

When you correctly answer that question, you'll see the error in calvin.

(hint, man, "NOT WILLING")

 

Psalm 58:3 says "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies."

My babies used to lie to me. They would cry as if they were hungry or needed something. But they didn't always need something. Sometimes they just wanted my attention.

I didn't have to teach them to be selfish.

I didn't have to teach them to disobey.

I didn't have to teach them to hide from me when they had disobeyed.

I didn't have to teach them to lie and then try to hide the evidence of the truth.

Exactly how were they "innocent"? They sure didn't seem innocent to me.

 

Calvibaptist:
Greatest in (not out) the Kingdom of Heaven. Read it!!

 

I'm not going to bother answering your post Me4 because I have already answered those questions more times than I can count and you didn't even deal correctly with my previous post that you supposedly quoted.

 

Do all of you all of a sudden believe that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is heaven? I thought you all believed it had some reference to the millenial kingdom.

Notice, though, that it does not say "Every one of these children will be in the kingdom of heaven." It says, "Unless you be converted and become LIKE one of these little children..." It doesn't say to become a little child. It says to become like a little child. Jesus is talking about humble trusting. He is not talking about innocence.

 

Mt 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Show me a sinner that has an angel watching over them.

Until a child reaches the "Age of accountability", "KNOWING GOOD/EVIL", Eyes opened to sin, they aren't held "responsibile".

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

Whatever:
Where there is no Law there is no transgression.

 

Understand one thing, you don't cheat me, you cheat yourself.

 

Calvibaptist:
You all messed up. He just reached and picked out one of the little children. He could of picked the one next to the one he got.

 

Calvinbaptist:

Kingdom of Heaven

reference to millenial kingdom?

Not me!!!

 

Quote Calvinbaptist:

Personally, I rest in the righteousness and grace of God when it comes to the death of infants. If God wants to elect all infants to salvation and bring them to heaven, He can. Does he? The Bible does not say. I would have to say that I believe He does

 

Finish the passage:

"That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, 'I have made you the father of many nations'--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist."

One thing is certain. Babies who share the faith of Abraham are certainly saved. Beyond that you are speculating.

 

Sad to say that even the Laws of the land protect the babies more than some here for even the law of the land don't hold them responsible.

 

Psalm 58:3 says "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies."

My babies used to lie to me. They would cry as if they were hungry or needed something. But they didn't always need something. Sometimes they just wanted my attention.

I didn't have to teach them to be selfish.

I didn't have to teach them to disobey.

I didn't have to teach them to hide from me when they had disobeyed.

I didn't have to teach them to lie and then try to hide the evidence of the truth.

Exactly how were they "innocent"? They sure didn't seem innocent to me. </font>[/QUOTE]But were they sinning against DADDY or God, and did they know the "Difference", Daddy only spanks, God condemns????

 

Hello Me4Him.

De 27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. You are only comparing God and man and saying God is under law. This is a false notion.

God is telling us not Himself, His law to us does not dictate to Him but He Dictates. JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy.

Innocent or guilty you still need God's mercy because before you were born or had done anything good or bad He chose you for Heaven or Hell and to that place you go regardless of innocence or guilt but He made sure it would be with guilt as He bound all men over to disobedience. Amen. JOB 9:20 Even if I were innocent, my mouth would condemn me; if I were blameless, it would pronounce me guilty.

That is your opinion and Job tells you so Helen.

RO 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law...
If you don't hear the law a snowball will have a better chance.

PS 147:19 He has revealed his word to Jacob,
his laws and decrees to Israel.

PS 147:20 He has done this for no other nation;
they do not know his laws.

Many have not heard.

And another who deems himself able to judge the Judge?

john.

 

Sin is transgression of the Law and "where there is no Law, there is no transgression simply means there is no sin". As the small children of Me4Him they were without the Law and therefore could not sin. There will come a time in their life where as apostle Paul: The commandments came, sin revived and I died, then they will be in sin. Once again, the law of the land has more mercy than some here. In other words you are saying that man has more mercy than God.

 

If they die, they have a sin nature. That is Romans 5:12-14.

No one is innocent before God. That is Romans 3:19. </font>[/QUOTE]Calvi is right. This is perfectly true. No one is innocent.

However, God may have mercy on the unborn simply because He wants to have mercy on them. There's no way for us to know, so I don't see why so many here want to take a firm position on this. Once again, that's just theology by emotion, not by scripture. If your emotional conclusions don't match God's truth, then I'll give you 3 guesses as to how likely it is that God will change his mind just to make you feel better.