Speaking in Tongues

DHK,
We are in agreement here . I believe our experiences should be able to arise out of the word of God also. We mess up when we get out of balance with what the word has to say. We can also see this in the scriptures: The Pharisee's knew the word. They knew the "letter of the law"; Jesus comes on the scene, and tries to explain to them the "spirit" of the law. This angers them. What they were saying was not wrong, as far as "The disciples not washing their hands", Not working (healing) on the Sabbath, etc. Jesus was trying to show them what is more important. He was not doing away with the law; He was showing them how God wants to restore that relationship with them. Jesus said we were no longer servants, but friends.
I interpret this to mean that we need to read and meditate upon the scriptures, yet we also need to spend time in prayer, and experience our life as a Christian. I believe Jesus is alive, and the Holy Spirit dwells within us, and we can communicate to each other. Jesus is still speaking today. Through the Holy Spirit. If we listen, we can hear His voice. Perhaps not audible, but in our hearts.
I know that there are people who have "short-circuited" what the spirit of God wants to do in their lives. They have allowed their emotions to lead them. They are tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.
There is no real foundation upon the word. The foundation is built on sinking sand. They go from one "experience" to another. Or one conference to another, just hoping to hear from God, or experience the "good feelings" they get. This is wrong.
I also know people who are so rigid in their own doctrine, that if the Holy Spirit did anything outside their own understanding, they would miss out because it would fall on deaf ears.
Are both groups saved? I believe they are. I just think they both need balance. I have been in both groups, and still do at times .
I believe that anyone who is saved can lean upon their own understanding at times. Yet, I know God is able to help His people to come out of it, if they are willing to be open to hearing His voice, and obeying. (I have been off in my understanding, but Praise His Name, He bestowed Mercy and Grace upon me )
I just want to lift up the name of Jesus, and grow in His grace, and become more like Him.
Every time I think I have it figured out, something happens to let me know that I do not have it all figured out! . It is truly a humbling experience. LOL!

DHK,
Thank you for what you teach me. I have learned much from you, even though we differ at times .
Naomi

 

Interesting that on this anti-Charismatic board that 38 % do not believe the cessationist theory.
Last year I read a study showing that 20% of Southern Baptist have Charismatic leanings.
There is no official resolution that I know of in the SBC on this issue. There is however a strong stand in the North American Mission Board that will not allow the Annie Armstrong Offerings to support a SBC Church that has Charismatic leanings.
The Georgia Baptist Convention tried to pass a resolution against Speaking in Tongues in 1998 but it did not recieve enough votes to pass.

Since each Church is autonomous this is left up to the local church to decide their stand about the issue.
Most Baptist of any kind would agree that the local church should make such decisions.

 

Naomi, I agree with your post, 100%. I don't usually jump into these discussions about speaking in tongues because I've seen them turn into personal attacks. Thank you for your comments and posts.

The Holy Spirit moves when He is received with open hearts. So, some of us (and here I thought I was alone) are Charismatic Baptists. But we are Baptists, nonetheless. Part of the colorful and diverse Body of Jesus Christ. We better get used to each other....eternity is a really long time! LOL!

 

At Beeson Theological Seminary on the Campus of Samford University in Birmingham a Southern Baptist university. You can go into the Chapel of the Seminary and find a beautiful painting on the top of the ceiling.
The Painting is called " The Great Cloud of Witnesses."
You will see paintings of several People that influenced Christianity. A few are Lottie Moon,
Spurgon, and others. One of the paintings is William Seymore of the Azusa Street mission.
If Baptist have a problem with Speaking in Tongues I don't think they would allow a painting with Seymores picture.
I am sure that many Baptist churches have people that speak in Tongues in them. I happen to know some youth Pastors that Pray in Tongues. It seems that these are the youth Pastors that are seeing many people come to Jesus.

 

The apostolic gift ceased with the death of the apostles; else why is there nothing else written on tongues-speaking after the death of the apostles?

 

so now the perfect that was comming to make tongues cease is the death of the apostles?

 

Actually, many of the Church Fathers did speak of such things happening including Ireanous in the 3rd century, Patrick in the 4th century and Augustine, Columba as late as the 5th century. Cessationist scholars have often ignored the Church fathers and write such things as fact in their books.

That which is perfect if read in a natural way refers to the coming of the eternal ages at the Second Coming of Christ. I am neither Charismatic nor Cessationist in my theology and I think many believe if you are not a Cessationist you support the Charismatic movement which is not true. The late Martin Lyod Jones and the late John R. Rice and John Piper were and are not cessationists while at the same time were critical of the modern day tongues movement. I find that Cessationists and Charismatics are at opposite extremes. I think much caution should be used in dealing with this subject. God Bless and keep you all

Sovereign Grace Messenger of First Baptist

[ June 18, 2002, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

 

Sorry I wasn't clearer---I meant that tongues just sorta fizzled-out & upon completion of the Bible, they were stopped completely. I see nothing else written in there about them; other than the warnings about 'another gospel' & how satan will deceive us with all power, signs & lying wonders; of which the modern day 'tongues' will be a part.

 

The last Apostle to die was john on the Isle of Patmos.
Wasn't The Revealation of jesus Written by The Apostle John the last book of the Bible written.
(If i am wrong please correct me)

If this is the case then nothing was written about Tongues or any other subject

After the death of the last Apostle, period!

So if the argument is that gifts ceased with the death of the Apostles since nothing was written on it then
1.salvation must have ceased since nothing was written on it after the death of the Apostles,
2. water baptism must have ceased since nothing was written on it after the death of the Apostles,
3. the power to live a holy life must have ceased since nothing was written on it after the death of the Apostles,
4. The Lords Supper should cease since there was nothing written about it after the death of the Apostles.
5. The Church must have ceased after the death of the Apostles since nothing was written about the church after the death of the apostles.

Maybe the cessationist theory is another Gospel!!!!

[ June 19, 2002, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: atestring ]

 

EagleLives911,
Thank you for your kind words. Charismatic Baptists? You should see the Baptists in Africa!!
My goodness...They are pretty radical! I call them "Bapticostals". Talk about walking in "New Testament" power!! If the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased, nobody told them!! LOL!
I guess, when you come face to face with a witch doctor, and you are surrounded by many who are demon possesed, you don't really think about your doctrinal up bringing...You scream out, "Help Jesus!!", and the next thing you know, the gifts you thought were not for today, suddenly begin to manifest through you...and whamo! Your entire theology is changed in an instant! LOL!!
Now what do you call yourself? Thats where we get the term, "Bapticostal".
Naomi

 

No the perfect is the completed scripture. No matter what anyone thinks of translations we have, when scripture was completed it was the perfect word of God, without error. Otherwise we could not rely on it today. Scripture is the witness of who Jesus is, it verifies that He is God's Son, Savior and Lord.

 

No the perfect is the completed scripture. No matter what anyone thinks of translations we have, when scripture was completed it was the perfect word of God, without error. Otherwise we could not rely on it today. Scripture is the witness of who Jesus is, it verifies that He is God's Son, Savior and Lord.</font>[/QUOTE]What bible verse/verses do you have to prove your claim that tongues will cease with the finishing of scripture?

 

It is a horrible crime trying to find fault with God's Holy Word; which is still today so very clear, even to an old granny. I do get tired of so-called 'christians' saying that God is wrong. Nevertheless, the Lord and His Word(KJBible stand sure--despite the foolish attacks. And by fighting the Lord, His Truths and His true people, one is actually putting themselves in the position of being an enemy of God. These are deceptive days & many are falling prey to the compromise & deception of another gospel. "May God give us preachers like we used to have"!

 

Whoops! I posted something here and it came off as sounding sarcastic. If anyone read it before I edited, please forgive me.

Granny,
I do not see where anyone is saying God is wrong in anything.
If one does not accept that the gifts are for today, so be it. I would not judge their conversion at all. On the same thought process, why call people so-called Christians if they do believe the gifts are still for today? That does not mean they are following a "different" gospel. If you feel they are deceived by that, pray that they would come into the knowledge of the truth. If you ae content with not receiving the gifts of the spirit, that is fine. My question earlier was, If the occult has demonic powers operating, why would God leave us so ill equipped? He has left us with the Holy Spirit, yet without power? I just cannot agree with this.
Like I said, I would certainly not accuse you of following a different gospel, if you do not agree with this.
Naomi

[ June 19, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Naomi ]

 

I posted the above in another thread. I stand by what I said that the gibberish practiced today was something that never existed in the Bible in as far as God's people were concerned.

 

pinoybaptist!!! Where have you been??
I have not heard you around here lately. I was getting nervous! ( thought maybe the rapture took place )
Good to see you back
Naomi

 

Hi, Naomi. Thanks. I've been "lurking in the shadows, waiting for the moment to pounce"
Seriously, I've been here all the time, just taking it easy.

 

I posted the above in another thread. I stand by what I said that the gibberish practiced today was something that never existed in the Bible in as far as God's people were concerned.</font>[/QUOTE]If I understand you you are saying that the tongues in the new Testament are different than that of today ( Of which you call gibberish)
HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Were you there, in the Early Church when The Apostle Paul Spoke in tongues?

There are over 3000 languages in the world today .
Would you be able to tell me for sure that when people speak in tongues today that they are speaking in What you call gibberish?
You could only say this ,if you know all the languages of the world.
How many languages do you speak fluently?
If you can speak 3 languages fluently you would be exceptional.

 

Hi, my name is Pearl. I am a baptist. I do speaking in tongues & believe in strongly. I believe it still exists today because I have proof!


[ June 24, 2002, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Pearl ]

 

I posted the above in another thread. I stand by what I said that the gibberish practiced today was something that never existed in the Bible in as far as God's people were concerned.</font>[/QUOTE]If I understand you you are saying that the tongues in the new Testament are different than that of today ( Of which you call gibberish)
HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Were you there, in the Early Church when The Apostle Paul Spoke in tongues?

There are over 3000 languages in the world today .
Would you be able to tell me for sure that when people speak in tongues today that they are speaking in What you call gibberish?
You could only say this ,if you know all the languages of the world.
How many languages do you speak fluently?
If you can speak 3 languages fluently you would be exceptional.</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah I gave the same argument before but people here dont want to see the truth