Comparative analysis: Matthew 24, 25 & 1 Thessalonians 4

Ed,

Quote:
"No Signs precede the Rapture"
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
______________________________________

Jesus describes the Day He comes as a "thief"
occurring when "they see Him coming in the
clouds in power and great glory" and He sends
the angels to Rapture the elect out of the
extremities of the heavenS. He also
describes His coming "suddenly, like a
snare when the wicked will not expect Him;
and they will not escape". SAME CONTEXT as in
I Thess.5:1-3. Luke 21:34-35.

The Rapture IS described (in part) in Matt.24:31
and you omitted the Sign that immediately follows the first part of the Rapture.

"They will see Him coming" after Jesus has already "raptured the Elect from earth to heaven". So the Angels will then gather them out of the heavens while the tribes of earth mourn and beg to escape His wrath on one of the days "after the Tribulation". Mark 13:24-27;
Luke 21:36.

Your claim that "no signs must precede the
Rapture" contradicts both the context for
Christ's coming as a thief and the fact that
every eye will see Him coming as He sends the
angels to complete the Rapture of the Elect.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

If there were no signs to precede the rapture, then the following would be nonsense:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him

This is concerning the return of the Lord and the rapture.

saying that the day of the Lord has already come

This equates the event (the return of the Lord and the rapture) with the day of the Lord. You can confirm this with Matthew 24, which also aligns the Day of the Lord with the rapture and His return.

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Paul is basically telling them "Unless you've already seen that the rebellion has come and the man of lawlessness has been revealed, you know the day of the Lord could not possibly have come yet, because those things precede the day of the Lord."

Why would Paul give them this reference point if the would be raptured before these things occurred? What's the point in telling someone "You know the day of the Lord hasn't come yet because the rebellion hasn't occurred and the man of sin hasn't been revealed" if they won't be there to see these things?

 

npetreley,

Good points!

And if the Pre-Tribbers assert there will be
no pre-signs required because Christ is coming
"as a thief," they need to realize that He said
His coming as a thief will occur when the armies are gathered to Armageddon ... at the END of the Endtime.
Rev.16:15.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Mel Miller: //Your claim that "no signs must precede the
Rapture" contradicts both the context for
Christ's coming as a thief and the fact that
every eye will see Him coming as He sends the
angels to complete the Rapture of the Elect.//

Actually my claim that the Rapture Event is a different
event than the Coming of the Lord in might and power
is substantuated by these facts. It is your claim,
Brother Mel Miller that contradicts
coming as a thief which is contradictory to the fact that
every eye will see Him coming as He sends the
angels to complete the Rapture of the Elect.
Sorry, in my part of the country when a thief comes to
your house, he steals stuff and YOU DON'T KNOW IT HAPPENED
until next moring.


I notice in my 22 April post that starts out:
"Comparing the rapture/resurrection" that I give 13 reasons
why the Rapture Event (rapture of the Church Age saints)
is different from the Glorious Second Coming of Christ
in Power and Glory Event (Jesus comes and kicks Satan's
booty into hell, etc.). There has only been one of the 13 points
unsuccessfully debated here. The other 12 points are
unchallenged. I declare myself winning this debate

BTW, the Rapture Event (rapture of the Church Age saints)
happens the same 'day' (seven year day)
as the Glorious Second Coming of Christ
in Power and Glory Event (Jesus comes and kicks Satan's
booty into hell, etc.).

In the past we have had whole threads on this board
(either here in this Baptist Theology Forum or in the
generic all-Christistians debate Forum) about the
signed or signless pretribulation rapture of the Church
Age Saints.

BTW, those readers of Matthew 24-25 should be aware that
the 'signs' of Matthew 4-14 are the signs that the
CHURCH AGE (AKA: GENTILE AGE or TIME OF THE GENTILES)
continues NOT signs that the Tribulation Period is getting near.

According to 2 Thessaloniains 2:1-8, the sign of the
comming of the Antichrist (AKA: man of sin, man of apostasy,
man of rebellion) is the pretribulation rapture (AKA: 'departure'
of the saints, 'falling away' from earth of the elect).
Tee hee, small minded folks can't see that if you have a
scene as in 1 Thess 4 of the dead and living rising
into the sky to Jesus - if you rotate the camera 180º -
that the dead and living are falling away from the earth
into the hands of Jesus.
(BTW, if the camera shows the saints in America falling away
from the earth into the hands of Jesus, at the same exact time,
the Christians of Australia will be rising into the arms
of Jesus. But hey, imagination has been sucked out of
the lost and Christians alike by demonic TV sets


// What's the point in telling someone "You know the day
of the Lord hasn't come yet because the rebellion hasn't
occurred and the man of sin hasn't been revealed" if they
won't be there to see these things? //

For the same reason that God caused the events of Ascenstion
day, the giving of the marching orders for Christian Soldiers
(AKA: the Great Commission) to us to be read today:
One Thousand, Nine Hundred and Seventy-Three (1,973) years later.

 

I'll "second" that "E=motion".

 

Who is G12?
There was a Genesis12 posted, but he said
something entirely different </font>[/QUOTE]G12 is short for Genesis 12 and that is exactly what he was saying.

 

Well, let's see... We are not all perfect, so I guess we don't all come to the same conclusions. Honestly, what kind of questions is this. Even Peter admitted that some of Paul's writings were hard to understand.

2 Peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand

This is why it is important to study so that we don't follow the people that twist the Scriptures to their own destruction.

And I'm not sure why you think Calvin and Sproul should be excluded from my list of great men of the faith who don't believe in a rapture...

 

Scripture is from the KJV1611 Edition

Mat 24:3 And as he sate vpon the mount of Oliues, the Disciples came vnto him priuately, saying,
I Tell vs, when shall these things be?
II And what shall be the signe of thy coming,
III and(what shall be the signe) of the end of the world?


I Tell vs, when shall these things be?
Mat 24:4 And Iesus answered, and said vnto them, Take heed that no man deceiue you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ: and shall deceiue many.
Mat 24:6 And yee shall heare of warres, and rumors of warres: See that yee be not troubled: for all these things must come to passe, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdome against kingdome, and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes in diuers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrowes.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliuer you vp to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and yee shall bee hated of all nations for my names sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false Prophets shall rise, and shall deceiue many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquitie shal abound, the loue of many shall waxe cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure vnto the end, the same shall be saued.
Mat 24:14 And this Gospell of the kingdome shall be preached in all the world, for a witnesse vnto al nations, and then shall the end come.

III And what shall be the signe of thy coming,
Mat 24:15 When yee therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, stand in the holy place, (who so readeth, let him vnderstand.)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Iudea, flee into the mountaines.
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the house top, not come downe, to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field, returne backe to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And wòe vnto them that are with child, and to them that giue sucke in those dayes.
Mat 24:20 But pray yee that your flight bee not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor euer shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those dayes should be shortned, there should no flesh be saued: but for the elects sake, those dayes shall be shortned.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say vnto you, Loe, heere is Christ, or there: beleeue it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shal shew great signes and wonders: insomuch that (if it were possible,) they shall deceiue the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I haue told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore, if they shall say vnto you, Behold, he is in the desert, goe not foorth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers, beleeue it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightening commeth out of the East, and shineth euen vnto the West: so shall also the coming of the Sonne of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoeuer the carkeise is, there will the Eagles bee gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those dayes, shall the Sunne be darkned, and the Moone shall not giue her light, and the starres shall fall from heauen, and the powers of the heauens shall be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appeare the signe of the Sonne of man in heauen: and then shall all the Tribes of the earth mourne, and they shall see the Sonne of man coming in the clouds of heauen, with power and great glory.

II and(what shall be the signe) of the end of the world?

Mat 24:31 And hee shall send his Angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his Elect from the foure windes, from one end of heauen to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learne a parable of the figtree: when his branch is yet tender, and putteth foorth leaues, yee know that Summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise yee, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is neere, euen at the doores.
Mat 24:34 Uerely I say vnto you, this generation shall not passe, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heauen and earth shall passe away, but my wordes shall not passe away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and houre knoweth no man, no, not the Angels of heauen, but my Father onely.
Mat 24:37 But as the dayes of Noe were, so shall also the comming of the Sonne of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the dayes that were before the Flood, they were eating, and drinking, marrying, and giuing in mariage, vntill the day that Noe entred into the Arke,
Mat 24:39 And knew not vntill the Flood came, and tooke them all away: so shall also the comming of the Sonne of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field, the one shalbe taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill: the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therfore, for ye know not what houre your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the good man of the house had knowen in what watch the thiefe would come, he would haue watched, and would not haue suffered his house to be broken vp.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be yee also ready: for in such an houre as you thinke not, the sonne of man commeth.

 

In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
(in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
instead of an outline. This is most noticable
in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.
I believe the major outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
last days, etc.)

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that the church age continues.

 

Ed: // Who is G12?
There was a Genesis12 posted, but he said
something entirely different [] //

Calvibaptist: //G12 is short for Genesis 12 and that
is exactly what he was saying.//

I don't have time to read between the lines of all his
posts to see if there is any vaility to your charges.
So I'll consider him inocent until a second party
gives a REAL testimony to his wrongdoing.

 

The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,


There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Tribulation period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.

 

Mercy, how easy is it to over look the fact that a "BRIDEGROOM" is coming "BEFORE", the "LORD" comes.

Israel was promised a "Resurrection" and they will be when the "lord" comes, but they were never promised a "Rapture", and won't be when the "Bridegroom" comes.

Sometimes the easiest things are the hardest to "SEE".

 

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

Ain't it amazing that timewise God has
two Chosen Peoples. I'm in the chosen
People that is part of the Body of
Christ & the Bride of Christ.
In eternity, of which time is but a
very small subset, there is but one
Chosen People, but in time, times, and
eras and ages, one Chosen People exists
at one time.

 

Mel Miller: //And if the Pre-Tribbers assert there will be
no pre-signs required because Christ is coming
"as a thief," they need to realize that He said
His coming as a thief will occur when the armies
are gathered to Armageddon ... at the END of the Endtime.
Rev.16:15.//

Interesting, two different appearances, one as a Thief
IN THE NIGHT, one publically against the Mountian of Miggedo
(AKA: Harmageddon) -- the only way to get them the same
is to assume them the same and indulge in CIRCULAR LOGIC

Where I come from, 'the thief in the night' comes and
you don't notice until your stuff is long gone.

BTW, why do you think the place of the gathering of the
armies of evil is called 'the Mountian of Miggedo'
(AKA: Harmageddon where 'Har' is a prefix meaning
'mountain')? I mean Miggedo is the largest Valley
in today's physical/geographic Israel.
Maybe the mountian is a spiritual symbol for a physical gathering
in the valley?

Bill Brown's lead-in post:
Comparative analysis: Matthew 24, 25 & 1 Thessalonians 4

Eschatologically speaking, are these chapters dealing with
the same event (the 2nd coming)or separate events (the second coming
and the rapture)? I am interested in the reasearch you
used to come with you opinion.
I will certainly share mine as well.//

WIll be interesting to hear from you.
Thought, of course, pepole are lots more interested in
telling their opinion instead of how they came to that opinion.

I'm a pretribulation rapturist believeing that God will
rapture/resurrect the Church Age (AKA: Age of Gentiles) prior
to the 7-year Tribulation Period (AKA: rule of the Antichrist).
Unfortunately, I'm also a qualified (in the State of OKlahoma)
secular teacher of Logic. So I know that for any logic,
one must start with what 200 years ago was
called an 'axiom' /self evident truth/ but today is
called an 'assumption" /something one thinks might be
true.

From the nature of God I think it is a good assumption to
make that Jesus will come to get me (in the rapture or the
resurrection) and take me to heaven
prior to God's bringing Judgement to the earth.
I have found nothing in the Bible since I made this assumption
that contradicts my assumption.

By contrast, most other eschatological viewpoints are
assumed as well without the knowledge of the believer.
And their proofs constitute circular logic.
If you start assuming 2+2=5 you can PROVE 2+2=5.

BTW, I first found this Axiom in April 1952. I was saved
at a pretribulation's revial meeting in Elk City Oklahoma
in April 1952. So I've had lots of time (other than working
and raising a family /on the 2ed Job and 2ed Family) to
study the logic of my statement in light of The Teachings
of the Holy Bible. So I hope Jesus comes to get me in
the rapture before the Tribulation Period. Some scoffers say
that that is prideful. Sorry, I still HOPE hope Jesus comes to get me in
the rapture before the Tribulation Period.
I've sit by others MONTHS dying of cancer and the process of
DYING is worse than you think it is

I understand it may be my lot to die, but i'll be resurrected
in the pretribulation rapture/resurrection. I understand it
may be my lot to be tortured for Christ's sake without
entering the Ttribulation Period. And i know that even if I
am weak and renounce Jesus, JESUS WILL NEVER RENOUNCE me. Not
cause I have anything to brag about, but because JESUS HAS
EVERYTHING TO BRAG ABOUT!!!! Jesus is my Lord and that
cannot change no matter how stupid I might be. FOr what Jesus
has done for me, saving me from eternal damnation in
the Lake of Fire, I shall serve my Lord and Savior: Messiah
Jesus. And even if i fail - Jesus will NEVER FAIL. I'm was
as saved the day i received regneration (initial salvation)
as I will be at the pretribulation rapture/resurrection.
I'm as saved today as I will be at the pretribulation rapture/resurrection.
with daily, now type salvation: continual working with Christ
in daily clean-ups: sanctification.
On that day when we Christianst Glory in the Lord and THe
Lord gives us His Glory (AKA: the pretribulation rapture/resurrection)
we are also saved. When does the salvation of Jesus end?
It is eternal, it is forever, it has no end.

See, all my doctrines JIVE together, is is one doctrine,
the LORd's doctrine.

BTW, I was doing some study of the early Chruch Fathers.
One of the main doctrinal topic about 220 to 320AD was
the Salvation of the Lapsi: could a person who renounced
God ever be saved again? The answer is, NO. But such a
person is NOT lost. There were several evil people in
this time period who, when a person rescended his faith
in Christ, got tortured to death anyway - the crime:
'hanging with Christers' - the penalty 'hanging on crosses
with Christains". So some Lapsi became instant martyrs.

Bill Brown: //I am a historic premillenialist (in the same mold
as the late James Boice). I do not hold to a premillenial rapture. //

Be careful, some 'post-tribulation rapturists' you will find
here are NOT premillenialists. Recall that a-mills can
believe in a physical/literal Second Coming at the end of the world
even though they don't believe in a physical Millinnial
Messianic Reign of Christ on the physical throne of David in a
physical Jerusalem.

Grasshopper: //If Paul was writing to living Christians, and he was,
And if those Christians were being persecuted for their faith,
and they were, And if Paul promised those living
Christians relief from that persecution, and he did,
and if Paul promised those living Christians that thei
relief would come "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven",
and he did, Then if Jesus did not come in the lifetime
of those living Christians and give them relief from
that present persecution, then, Paul was a false prophet!//\

This logic is invalid. In fact, this is a good example of
'reducto ad absurdum' - reduction to the absurd.
In this logic technque, you make an assumption, then do some
logic showing an absurd conclusion. THis proves the assumption
false. Here the absurd conclusion is that Bible writer "Paul
was a false prophet!" Obviously, this is absurd, for all the
Bible writers were inspired of God and their writings are
without error.
LEt us look at the three assumptions:

1. //If Paul was writing to living Christians, and he was, ...//

This is shown false by the 'Reducto Ad Absurdum' argument.
Paul was writing to the living Christians, and to us
who were not living that that time.

2. // ... if those Christians were being persecuted
for their faith, and they were, ... //

This assumption is likely correct and is a good assumption

3. //... if Paul promised those living
Christians relief from that persecution, and he did, ... //

This assumption is correct, but with
a WRONG implication.
Paul did not promise 'living Christians relief from
that persecution' while they lived.
Even death, for a Christian is 'relief from
persecution' for the soul goes to heaven where
there is no evil nor persecution.
As I probably said earlier, if i die in Christ, I am
sure I'll be resurrected one of the two times that
Jesus comes the Second time.


--------------------------------------
o$h's 13 'facts' compared with the scriptures.

First of all, I believe that Matthew 24:29's 'after the
tribulation of those days' does NOT pertain to
Matthew 24:31. Matthew 24:29-30 is about
the Second Coming Event; Matthew 24:31-44 is about
the signless Pretribulation Rapture/resurrection Event.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 to 5:11 is about the

1. Christ Himself Returns Matt. 24:30 I Thess. 4:16

This denotes a similarity between the two Second
Comings of Christ.

2. From Heaven Matt. 24:30 I Thess. 4:16

This denotes a similarity between the two Second
Comings of Christ: one coming to get HIs own, a second
phase of the second coming to destroy the antichrist
and his evil works.

3. With a Shout Matt. 24:30 (in power) I Thess. 4:16

This denotes a similarity between the two Second
Comings of Christ.

4. Accompanied by Angels Matt. 24:31 I Thess. 4:16

Both these scriptures speak only of
the pretribulation rapture/resurrection.


5. With Trumpet of God Matt. 24:31 I Thess. 4:16

Both these scriptures speak only of the pretribulation rapture/resurrection

6. Believers Gathered Matt. 24:31 I Thess. 4:17

Both these scriptures speak only of the Gathering
AKA: the pretribulation rapture/resurrection

7. In Clouds Matt. 24:30 I Thess. 4:17

The post-tribulatin Second Coming Event is WITH THE CLOUDS
the pretribulation rapture/resurrection event is in the clouds

8. Time Unknown Matt. 24:36 I Thess. 5:1-2

The post-tribulatin Second Coming Event has a known time:
7-years after the pretribulation rapture/resurrection event,
and 3-1/2 years after the Antichrist declares himself GOd
in the 3rd temple.

9. Will Come as a Thief Matt. 24:43 I Thess. 5:2,4

Both these passages are about the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection Event. When the Lord COmes with
10s of Millions of Heaven's horsemen - it will show up
on the world's radars prior to their arrival.

10. Unbelievers Unaware of Impending Judgment Matt. 24:37-39 I Thess. 5:3

Unbelievers are always unaware of impending Judgment,
no matter what the dispensation one is in.

11. Judgment Comes as Travail upon Expectant Mother Matt. 24:8 I Thess. 5:3

This is true always. BTW, Matthew 24:8 is about a sign that
the Chruch Age (Age of the Gentiles) contine NOT that Jesus
is coming soon.

12. Believers to Watch Matt. 24:42 I Thess. 5:4

Both these scriputres are about the pretribulatin
rapture/resurrection of the Church Age saints

13. Warning Against Drunkenness Matt. 24:49 I Thess. 5:7

These scriptures are true throughout all ages:
those who wait upon the Lord shall rise up as Eagles

-------------------------------------

 

I don't know if anyone else reads walls of text like this, but I don't.

 

Summary:
People of the cult of Ignorance
don't know very much.

Ignorance - not knowing
Cult - group that doesn't agree with me
know - to be aware of, to have information about

 

Thanks.

 

Ed,

Quote:
______________________________________________
"BTW, the Rapture Event (rapture of the Church Age saints) happens the same 'day' (seven year day) as the Glorious Second Coming of Christ
in Power and Glory Event (Jesus comes and kicks Satan's booty into hell, etc.)".
_______________________________________________

What evidence have you given to show that the
"Day" for the Rapture and Second Coming is a
"seven-year-day" as you claim?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Ed,

Quote:
_______________________________________________
"BTW, those readers of Matthew 24-25 should be aware that the 'signs' of Matthew 4-14 are the signs that the CHURCH AGE (AKA: GENTILE AGE or TIME OF THE GENTILES) continues NOT signs that the Tribulation Period is getting near".
_____________________________________________

Ed, you refer to the wrong verses for us to
know when the Rapture is near ... the Rapture
that you have admitted will occur as of Matt.
24:31. Your quote above omits the "sign" by
which we will "know the End is near, even at
the door. The Sign of the Son of Man will
appear in heaven before He sends the angels
to gather the elect out of the 4 winds from
all extremities of the heavens". Matt.24:30,33.

You have built a theory without substance.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Ed,

Quote:
______________________________________________
"Small minded folks can't see that if you have a
scene as in 1 Thess 4 of the dead and living rising into the sky to Jesus - if you rotate the camera 180º - that the dead and living are falling away from the earth into the hands of Jesus".
______________________________________________

Large minded folks realize that the "dead in
Christ whom God brings with Jesus" according to
I Thess.4 INCLUDES THE SOULS OF TRIB-MARTYRS.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net