The Holy Roman Catholic Church...

Sirach: It is not for you to tell me what or what not to do. As for my experiences in the Catholic Church, I was there for twenty years, and can still quote much of the mass in Latin. I have the documents of Vatican II, the same Catholic Catechism that is also on the Web, as well as abundance of other literature. I know what the Catholic Church teaches--both from the inside and the outside. The sad thing is: it seems that you don't.
Whereas at one time I looked at the world through Catholic eyes (as perhaps you are doing now) and was defensive about such things, I got saved one day, and soon after the Lord opened my eyes. As I studied the Scriptures I realized that I had to make a choice. Either follow the teachings of the Bible or follow the teachings of the RCC. You can't do both for they are diametrically opposed to each other. Anyone with an ounce of honesty in them will see that if they have objectively studied both. I have. And I chose to follow the Bible rather than the teachings of the Catholics which so blatantly run contrary to what the Bible teaches.
Everything from purgatory, the assumption of Mary, the perpetual viginity of Mary, confession of sins to a priest, the sacrifice of the mass, transubstantiation, baptismal regeneration, indulgences, the praying of the rosary, prayers to saints, etc., etc. All of these and more are all unbiblical man-made doctrines. They cannot be backed up with Scripture. They are invented heretical doctrines that lead people down a pathway to Hell. Sad, but true.
Why leave the Catholic Church. Because the beliefs of the Catholic Church are diametically opposed to those of the Bible.
DHK

 

DHK,

You said...

And I said...

Isnt it weird that we each spent decades in the Catholic Church, yet we supposedly dont know what the CC "really teaches". What...were we the only Catholics who has liars for parochial school teachers, liars for priests and nuns, and "doctored" catachisms and prayer books that protestants snuck into our hands to decieve us?

You said...

And I said...

And yet we still dont really know what the Catholic Church "really" teaches.

Amazing, isnt it? And so very sad.

Mike

 

Sirach,

What specifically do you want to know?

I have posted on this thread the truth from the scriptures regarding the truth that Gods gospel...the only one that will save...is embracing Christ, through faith alone, resulting in our justification.

Do you want me to show you where the Catholic Church condemns anyone who believes the gospel?

I will if you want.

Do you want me to show you where the Catholic Church proclaims a false works justification gospel?

I will if you want.

Mike

 

Sirach,

I said...

And you said...

Actually, I believe I can save us both a lot of time and effort regading this one.

You seem to be one who claims that you in fact do know what the Catholic Church teaches, so I'll just ask you.


Here are some "tip of the iceberg" verses that make clear that we are justified in Gods eyes in only one way...faith.

And that is faith alone.

(If you dont mind, I would ask you to please read each verse slowly in your mind, literally reading every word of each one of these verses. Thanks)
-------------------------------------------------

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."

Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"

Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"

Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."

Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."

Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."

Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."
-------------------------------------------------

I'll ask you.

Since you do know what the Catholic Church "really" believes, you now have the opportunity to show us all that the Catholic Church does indeed proclaim the true gospel, and does not condemn those who believe it.

Does the Catholic church agree with Almighty Gods gospel, as has been clearly articulated here by God Himself...that we are justified through embracing Christ through faith alone?

Yes...or no?

God bless,

Mike

 

What did Mike do? He took up your challenge. He took one of the listed topics and showed how the Catholic Church did and does not believe in this doctrine. The proof is that you cannot refute the Scripture that he gave. Instead you just say, "Thank you proving my point." What point? That salvation is by faith alone? That is what Mike proved, and that is what the Catholic Church does not believe as is evidenced in this thread over and over again. And you did absolutely nothing to refute Mikes post. You did nothing to take the Scripture and show how they mean anything else except what they teach: that salvation is by faith alone.
Yes--thank you for proving Mike's point.
DHK

 

I can give you plenty of proof for that. Most anyone can. Historical proof: Luther, Huss (burned at the stake), Wycliffe (also martyred), John Bunyan (kept in prison for the crime of preaching the gospel), Tyndale (burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English so that others might have the Bible in the vernacular), and the list goes on and on. There have been MILLIONS that have been murdered by the Catholic Church, for the simple reason--they preached the gospel, and not Catholic Church doctrine. Their blood will be on the RCC's hands.
"Anyone who the Catholic church condemns for believing the gospel." C'mon now. Read history. The Catholic Church took all of the Bibles that they could find of Tyndale's and burned them, once they had burned Tyndale himself. And yet the translation of the KJV is largely due to the work of William Tyndale.
DHK

 

Er...sorry, DHK, but I have to correct your blatant inaccuracies in your last post.

John Wycliffe died in his bed in 1384.

Bunyan was imprisoned by the post-Restoration Anglicanism of Charles II (which was also busy imprisoning the Catholics you despise).

So, please, "c'mon" yourself!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Yes I should have been more careful. But the facts are basically true. For example, Wycliffe may have died in his bed but but that doesn't change the fact that he was persecuted by the Catholic Church, and hated so much that his body was exhumed and then burned, and his ashes scattered.

Yes you are right again. The Church of England changed hands frequently with the Catholic Church at who should be the prime persecutor in the land. Both are/were "state-chruches" depending upon which one was in power. And whoever was in power used it to their advantage to lord it over the other religions to the point (sometimes) of extermination. Bloody Queen Mary (of Tudor) is good example of a zealous Catholic that comes to mind.
DHK

 

The Catholics do not follow the gospel. Both he and I know that from experience: past and present.
1. The gospel is not a gospel of works. He has shown you that from Scripture. You are on a Baptist board. The Bible is our only rule of faith and order. The Bible defines what the gospel is, not the Catholic Church. He defined salvation through the Bible. You have done nothing to refute it. What he posted is not what the Catholic Church teaches. Accordingly Luther was excommunicated for believing the same thing.

2. I know that the Catholics do not teach the gospel from my twenty years in the Catholic Church. I never heard the gospel message given even one time. Not once! One time in 20 years--no less than that. The gospel is not preached in the Catholic Church. Don't give me the bit about going to a bad church, because my family moved a lot when I was young, and all the Catholic churches couldn't be bad.

3. I live in a nation that is about 50% Catholic. My extended family is Catholic. My next door neighbor is Catholic. I go from door to door evangelizing, asking others about their beliefs about salvation. When it comes to the subject about salvation, being born again, the Catholics, on average are about as clueless as Hindus and Muslims. They have no idea what the gospel is, an the importance of it.

You will not prove to Catholics or Baptists that you know what you are talking about if you can't refute a simple post like Mike's
DHK

 

With apologies to the 'Python' team: "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!" But here's a Catholic take on it:-

LINK
Yours in Christ

Matt

 

DHK.

Me too. I 1st heard the gospel of Jesus Christ when I was 23 years old, after growing up Catholic. I had never heard it before.

This brother shared with me that if I were to embrace Jesus Christ through faith alone I could be completly reconciled to God, with nobody...no priests, nuns, hierarchial authorities, Mary, the "saints" of old, the Pope...as my "go between". The Holy Spirit would indwell me and "seal" me into the body of Christ. Heaven would be my eternal destination, and I could know that I was saved, rather than "hope so, think so, maybe so".

And even beyond that, I would have new power in my life through the Holy Spirit, and God would speak with me through His word and teach me truth, while giving me new wants and desires to live pleasing to Him.

I was amazed. It was like cool water to a very thirsty man. I fought against it for a while....like most sinners do...but other christians came along and shared with me. Finally the goodness of God was too much and I embraced Christ through faith alone.. I promised God nothing and repented of nothing...other than my stubborn refusal to call upon Him. From that moment on my life has never been the same. I am a new man, and God has done just what the christians who witnessed to me said He would. Change me from the inside out.

Glory to God. \o/

Mike

 

Sirache,

Thats a lie. What you hear at a mass is *some* correct facts about the Lord Jesus Christ. Born of a virgin, died for our sins, raised from the dead, etc. But reciting correct facts will save nobody.

If people hear the gospel at a Catholic mass, then they would hear what I just posted...

Does your Catholic Mass teach you that? If so you are in a very very odd Catholic Mass.

(But I praise God for it, if they are teaching that. But I highly doubt it)

Mike

 

Just so that it is clear...

Almighty God:

"For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith. And that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph 2: 8-9)

Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God. (Rom 5:1)

But to him who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted as rightiousness. Just as David describes the blessednerss of the man to whom God imputes rightiousness apart from works." Rom 4: 5-6

Catholic Church:

"If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be accursed" (Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 12).

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be accursed.” Sixth Session CANON IX

If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the Church, but only to believe, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema. (Canon 20)


How clear does it have to be?

May Almighty God have mercy.

Mike