Ok so I'm Reformed in my beliefs now.

Amen webdog;
We agree on this one.

 

James;
Sorry about the remark, please forgive.

Read this real close James;

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

Please read that close, they go forth speaking lies. They must already learned a language so we not speaking of infants here and neither was the writer.

 

Babies cry wanting to be picked up making the mother think they are hungry. If that isn't a lie and David wasn't conceived in iniquity, then portions of the Bible aren't true.

Babies are born with a sin nature and start sinning right away.

Babies are not accountable for their sin nature until they have received the knowledge of sin. The day they do they are bound straight for a devil's hell and must be washed in the Blood of Jesus befoere they die or they go to hell.

The same hell all men go to if they don't get saved after receiving the klnowledge of sin thus made accountable for that sin nature.

 

[ May 09, 2006, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Jarthur001 ]

 

Bob..the remark..i have no idea what you are talking about. nothing out of line that i saw. we are cool..peace

Now..roll up your sleeves...its time to get back to the fight


Bob..read the context. David is crying over this GREAT sin...he is feeling worthless..

Crying out...LORD...have mercy on me!!!!
He pleeds...Lord Blot out my sins!!
He crys..Lord WASH me
Lord Make me clean!!!!!!

LORD...I SINNED!! it is ever before me LORD..PLEASE I PLEED
LORD..it is YOU i have sinned against. YOU Lord..and You only.
Lord I have done EVIL in your sight


now in verse 5...

LORD..blame it or my mother...she was sinning when she had me.

is that right??? I mean come on Bob. This is to easy. Context is king. The context rules over one verse...one word.

The context demands...LORD....I was born as a sinner..I'm worthless...PLEASE forgive me Lord!! I pleed with you.

I see psalms 58 has been posted..

Bob did you miss this..."as SOON as they be born" Not when they live a day or two..not after they learn the word "no"...not after they go to school...just as soon as they are born. that moment on.

I know i'm wasting my time on this...you will not change even if you read it in the Bible.
nonetheless...lets move on..

Job 14..1 Man that is born of a woman...(that is every one Bob)...is full of trouble..

WHY??

verse 4 tells us why....
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?

who?

verse 4 says..NOT ONE.


AS SOON...

say it with me..AS SOON

As soon as they be born.

In Christ..James </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Job 14..1 Man that is born of a woman...(that is every one Bob)...is full of trouble
(a few days and full of trouble)

LORD..blaim it or my mother...she was sinning when she had me.
(No, he is just saying that it was in sin that he was born, in no way did he say he was sinning at his birth. How could he transgress the Law then.)


The context demands...LORD....I was born as a sinner..

( does not say that.)


verse 4 tells us why....
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?

(goes on to say this about him)
14: If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15: Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

He was born with a sinful nature because of Adam's sin but he was not sinning.

James; You are trying to hunt a scripture to prove your point but do not go on with the rest where it says after he dies he will live again. It does say that does it not James?

I see psalms 58 has been posted...which you laugh off.

(I don't laugh it off James, you know in order to speak lies they would have to be able to speak words and not da da either.)


At least we can debate without arguing James.

Blessings,
BBob

 

Bob...

you posted..


(No, he is just saying that it was in sin that he was born, in no way did he say he was sinning at his birth. How could he transgress the Law then.)
****************
This really is not talking about "sins", but rather our sin nature. The flesh. The old man. It is the one that drives us to sin. we are BORN with this.

 

Well...we have 2 things we can agree on sin nature...there you go.

 

Bob..you are about to be blessed. I'm using #1000 post on YOU.

Don't let it go to your head or anything. I'm not sure you can buy a new house with this blessing..but maybe..just maybe it will make you smile.


In Christ..James

 

I have always agreed with are born with a sin nature but not sinning. Maybe we been running past each other again.

GREAT JAMES !!!!!! 1000, God help us.

 

Thank you very much.

Yes maybe we have. But I think there is still something on this we do not agree. I hold to a 2 fold guilt of man. Not all do...i know this. In other words...not just the sins..but that also of our sin nature.

I call it the salvation triangle. This is hard to see on a post...but i will try.

draw a 90% x 45% x 90% triangle with the point pointing up..like this ^

in the far left hand corner write Christ.

at the top write God the Father.

to the bottom right write..believer.

Now..on the line going from Christ to The Father right...Propitation.

we have sinned. Death is the wages to this sin. Christ blood was given in place of our blood. It was payment for our sins. The payment goes to God the Father. Paid in full.

Now write Justification on the line going down from the father to the believer.

With Christ blood..God now removes our sin..just as if we had not sinned. This takes care of the very sins we have in our life. But we are still guilty...because we have a sin nature.

write on the line that goes from Christ across to the believer..."redemption"

Christ also buys us from the slave market..just as gomer was in hosea. we are now owned by Him.

Now..if this were a class...i would have people in each corner. The "believer" would be holding 2 signs...one with sins...which is now gone. the other is sin nature. I then tell the believer to walk over to christ. He takes the sign with him. Why? well..we will always carry our sin nature with is.

Now this is the picture...with Chrsit on one side...the sign on the other...whichever way you look...is the way you follow. This is like the story of peter. Peter was fine as long as he looked on Christ. When he took his eyes off of the Lord..he fell. when you look to the sign (sin nature) you turn your back on Christ. That is the key to the right walk...keep looking at Christ.

sorry..i didn't mean to preach...but you know how it is..when you get going.


In Christ...James

 

This is one of the Christian urban legends. A baby's only communication is crying. They do not "lie" when they want to be picked up.

A baby cannot even feed themselves "right away", but they can sin? Nice one.

This totally contradicts your previous points. Without law, there is no sin.

 

OSAS is my belief James.

The whole creation groaneth together until now waiting for the redemption of the body. Afraid the body won't get it until the resurrection James but the soul already has it, but the body is kept by the inner man and therefore although he sins but not a sin unto death such as adultery, murder etc. Are we in agreement here?

 

Salamander;
You saying when a baby cries it is sinning.

 

Bob,

Well..nearly. I agree with the flesh still can sin. While on earth..we CAN sin at any time..if we do not walk in the Spirit. I think this is the same as your saying. However..the last part.."sin unto death"...i do not hold this is a list of sins. Only one sin...is the sin unto death. All other sins can be forgiven. Yes even adultery. Adultery is a very bad sin for it hurts many many people. Yet God can and will forgive a broken heart. David is my case in point. Now i'll give you this...it is hard to see how a saved person can murder. yet this does happen. Yes..those that are saved can and do KILL. This is beyond my understanding...yet I know that this sin nature at any given moment can take us away from God...in a weak moment...the moment we focus on US and not God...we can let evil thoughts control us..and sin can happen..even murder can happen. Yet God forgives


In Christ...James

 

When I say sin unto death as I believe it was Paul said " there is a sin and there is a sin unto death", anyway a sin unto death I mean like the Ten and no repenting. "A sin which is not unto death" is maybe speaking when you should be listening, unchristian thoughts, not up and about your Father's business when you should be visiting the sick etc.

 

The problem with the beliefs of some on this thread is that they equate sin with an act. Sin is a condition, we sin(act) because we are sinners(condition). It is our condition we need to be cleansed of if our condition is not changed by Christ we continue doing the things we should not. Sin is sin you will punished the same whether you kill someone or lie. It is all the same in God's eyes.

 

God point Tim.

I always call it a path. A path away from God. In other words..sin is not the act or even of murder alone. Its is hating some one..wishing they were dead...planning to kill them..and the act of murder. The sin started in the heart and was a path away from Gods will. The whole path is sin..not just the end of the road. This is the case of all sins.


In Christ...James