1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Freemasonry vs. Christianity

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by O.F.F., Jul 11, 2004.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    The general rule is that threads close at 20 pages, as they become hard to follow and unmanageable as that length.
    It used to be five when there was less space, and in some parts of the board it's still 3 or five.
    As far as other threads being open longer, you'd have to ask the moderators of those threads. Sometimes they don't notice, but they may have their own reason.
    A thread being closed simply for length does not stop anyone from starting another thread on the topic, unless they are requested not to. Nobody here has been requested not to.
    Gina
     
  2. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mike

    Look up the the Fellow Craft Degree. Tennessee Monitor states God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity. The Tennessee Monitor is a Grand Lodge Doc an that is what it says.

    And Yes I have stated this on the Masonic Website and it was not offensive even a Jewish Mason took notice of it but was not offended by it.

    And I am not sure how YHWH in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity is not Biblical.

    Would you care to explain?
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    Mike, will tapes of this debate be available? If so, how can one get them? If this thread closes before you can post response, go to my site at http://cana.userworld.com
    and email me from there with the info by clicking on Contact CANA on the Menu, if you don't mind. Thanks so much!
     
  4. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Freemasonry states:

    You must be without sin to enter Heaven

    God Created the universe in 6 days and on the seventh He rested.

    God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity
    (Tennessee Monitor)
    Jehovah is the GAOTU
    (Tennessee)
    The Star represents the place of our Saviors Birth in Bethlem (Ohio Monitor)

    Jesus Christ is the resurrection and the Life
    (Oklahoma funeral)

    Lion of the Tribe of Judah
    (Tennessee and is backed by Masonic Bibles)
     
  5. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Knights Templar is the Completion of the Blue Lodge. The Blue Lodge lays out allot of material that leaves questions unanswered. Such as what role does Hiram really play in Freemasonry and it completes the Temple of King Solomon.

    It lays it out for you, explains what was left unanswered reviels that Jesus Christ is the way to Salvation and that by His death on the Cross we are set Free. It teaches use the True Word of Freemasonry the one that was replaced with a temporary one in the Blue Lodge.

    The Blue Lodge the first three degrees of Freemaosnry is like a song half sung, until you add the York Rite. Than it is a completed Song with the Salvation of Jesus Christ proclaimed there in.
     
  6. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    The following is posted on our Ex-Masons for Jesus discussion board by a FORMER Mason from Jacob's jurisdiction of Tennessee:
    __________________________________________________
    From Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary & copy; 2001-2004:

    Religion
    Freemasonry, very clearly and distinctly throughout Ritual, teaches the Mason a personal commitment to and serving of a deity, conceptualised in "The G.A.O.T.U.". Ritual refers the Mason to his VoSL, whether it be The Bible, The Qu'ran, The Upanishads, or The Bhagavad-Gita. Freemasonry also calls men to "a way of life recognised as incumbent on true believers"; The Charges, and "Fortitude, Prudence, Temperance, and Justice", as well as the points in the Oaths/Obligation are clear upon these.

    Knowing that this concept of "The G.A.O.T.U." is inclusive of very contradictory presentations of "God", and that each separate VoSL is interchangeable upon Masonry's Altar, what is evident from this "Religion in which all men agree", is that it is not merely a fraternal gathering of men of separate sects in harmony. Rather it becomes a separate Religion, leading all of these 'imperfect religions' into that "religion of nature and primitive revelation". One need only get beyond the superficial explanations of The Symbols and Ritual, and seek their roots in Ancient Mystery Religions to find this.

    Freemasonry's "authoritative teachers" are those that have gone beyond the surface of The Symbols and Ritual, drawn back the "veil of allegory", and have taught these things. That these Adepts of Masonic Religion are sometimes spurned by Masons has aught to challenge the truth of their writings. These teachers very pointedly admit that many Masons will never reach beyond the superficial explanations given The Symbols and Ritual, resigning themselves to the truth that despite being "Raised", that most will never become Master Masons.
    Viewed upon 1:, even though this application is somewhat unused today, "Bob died in his thirtieth year of Masonry" is synonymous.

    Upon the first argument posed upon 1:, the argument is extended to its next logical step here. That Freemasonry seeks to reconcile very diverse and contradictory religions into "that religion of nature and primitive revelation", "that religion in which all me agree" is clear.

    Freemasonry very clearly becomes defined by 3 a:. By its Ritual and Practice, even when separated from its homogenous religion, 3 b: very easily applies, that "cultural context" being Freemasonry itself.
    Given the "G.A.O.T.U." and multiple VoSL arguments against Freemasonry, this would be applicable upon the strength of the concept of the Fatherhood of God/Brotherhood of Man found within The Craft. That Masonry seeks to become "that religion in which all men agree" upon these tenets, the entire body of Work of Masonry becomes "profession and practice" of a separate religion, and the Work/Ritual the "religious observances" of that religion.
    Though archaic, this is a true application of the term regarding Freemasonry (Ritual and Landmarks), but hardly alone a point of contention with Fundamental Christian Belief. Where Fundamental Christian Belief holds to scrupulous conformity to The Word of God, Freemasonry holds to its homogenous, all religion encompassing ideal of "The G.A.O.T.U."
    In both 6: and 7: we find a very applicable description of Freemasonry, which at first glance would seem to cause no problems with Fundamental Christian Belief, were it not for Freemasonry's homogenisation of conflicting religions and "gods" under "The G.A.O.T.U.".

    The sticking point however, is the LACK of specificity or singular identification of such supreme being, powers, cause, or principle within/among several accepted V'soSL, and Freemasonry's solution in the all encompassing "G.A.O.T.U.". In this condition of “anonymity” the Fundamental Christian Belief would then argue it as heretical paganism/pantheism.

    In Christ' Service,
    WD
    __________________________________________________

    So, as prominent Mason George H. Steinmetz once said; "Neither official denial nor confirmation can change facts. It is of small consequence whether or not Masonry is acknowledged to be a religion. The important thing is HOW IT IS PRACTICED."

    As you can see, by the testimony of someone who once practiced Freemasonry in the same domain as Jacob, that by definition and in practice Freemasonry is a RELIGION. The delusion that it is somehow complementary to the Christian faith is in Jacob's & Ben's minds, and not a reality. It just goes to show how pride, and/or Satan's grip of deception can keep someone in such denial EVEN after being presented the truth.
     
  7. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    6
    What is the truth Mike? Does the Knights Templar promote Christianity or not?
     
  8. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    No Ben, like all other Masonic bodies, they promote Freemasonry!

    Mike
     
  9. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    False Mike
    Every Prayer starts and Ends with Jesus Christ as the Savior. It is all about being in Jesus's Service. Being huble taking care of others who need help as Christ taught.

    Knights Templar is not about promoting Freemaosnry it is about defending Christianity no matter where you are That is what Knights Templar is about. To uphold Christ above all others to defend Christianity. To promote Friendship and Brotherly love and always remember the Price paid on the Christ by our Savior Jesus Christ.

    To Honor our Savior by remembering Easter and Christmas as Holy Days. Also to remind Us Knbights Templars that were two or more are gathered in the Name of Christ He will be there.

    To follow the Teachings of Jesus Christ of Faith, Hope and Charity above all Charity.

    1 Cor. Ch13
     
  10. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina,

    All your points about 20 pages threads are well taken. As far as I am concerned, this one has lived long enough. I suspect others here may feel the same way, so please, feel free to close it as you have indicated you would.

    Sincerely in Christ,
    Mike
     
  11. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Freemasonry enforces the Teaches of Christ in Brotherly Love. Everyone can share in this.
     
  12. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    To a Christian in my Opnion Freemasonry would make more sence, The Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Etc would not understand the following.

    Faith in the Merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah

    God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity

    I (Jesus) am the resurrection and the life, saith the Lord. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

    Star Representing the Place of Our Saviors Birth

    Thru Education, Self Endevours and Divine Providence(God's Plan) we HOPE to Obtain access to Heaven.

    I now solemnly consecrate this lodge to the honor and glory of Jehovah, the Grand Architect of the Universe.

    According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay, than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    (My Brethren, this is the anniversary of that Last Supper of which Jesus of Nazareth partook with His humble disciples, after which He was betrayed and crucified.

    Who, of any creed, can picture to himself, unmoved, that noble and sweet countenance, which never looked on anything in anger, pale with agony, and streaming with tears? His back was torn by the lash, His brow pierced by the thorns. He suffered, willingly, until it seemed, even to Him, that His God and Father had forsaken Him.

    And yet, even then, bruised, hanged upon a cross, betrayed by one He loved, suffering and, for a moment, questioning, He still calls down not curses by blessings and a prayer for forgiveness upon those who had so treated Him.)


    Wherein they [older forms of religion] were deficient [Masonry] found in the New Law of Love, preached by Jesus of Nazareth, and which He sealed with His blood.

    The Holy Bible is given us as the rule and guide of faith . . . the Bible is the light which enlightens the path of our duty to God.7

    However they may differ in creed or theology, all good men are agreed that within the covers of the Holy Bible are found those principles of morality which lay the foundation upon which to build a righteous life. . . . It is the one volume which has lived in the hearts of the people, molding and shaping their destinies; and it leads the way to Him who is the Light of the world.
     
  13. RockRambler

    RockRambler New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was a Mason for years before I became saved. Once I was saved, I was uncomfortable with the Masonic Degree work and ceremonies. As a Shriner I did a lot of good, but I can still do that good as a Southern Baptist.

    I'm not really interested in an organization that practices racism, here in NC anyway, and in an organization that my wife or daughters can not join.
     
  14. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    RockRambler
    I am glad you accepted Christ as it is far more important than Freemasonry. The issue of racism is not in the teachings of Freemaosnry some Masons are racist and Masons should always speak out against racism as it is not Masonic.

    You said you are not interested in an Organization that practices racism. Well you will have a hard time staying with any organization there is racism even in the SBC thou it is against the Teachings of Christ. Just because some of the people that belong to an organization are racist does not mean the teachings of it are racist Freemasonry teaches that all are equal and does not require a skin color to join.

    It is up to us as Christians to promote equality of man. Because we are of One Blood. The teachings of Evolution has racism in it. But the Teachings of Christ do not just because a Christian who is a Southern Baptist is a racist does not mean the whole orginzation is just as with Freemaosnry.


    Also has anyone heard anything on the Conference in Ark on Sept 17,18 that Mike posted about.
     
  15. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    RockRambler,

    As a former Prince Hall Mason raised in NC, I can testify to the racism in Freemasonry by my personal experience. While active in the Lodge, one night I attempted to test two essential Masonic doctrines; Landmark #14, the right of visitation and Landmark #22, the equality of all Masons. As a result, although I was a "regular" Mason in good standing at the time, I was denied the right to enter into a "white" lodge and have Masonic fellowship.

    This can be further substantiated by an Ex-Mason for Jesus from NC, of Caucasian persuasion, who resigned from Freemasonry last year. The following link is to an article he wrote that appeared in the November 2003 edition of Up & Coming Magazine of Fayetteville, NC.

    Right and Wrong, One Mason's Stand

    Jacob, as to your inquiry about the conference that took place this past weekend, it was perhaps the best conference we had in 14 years of its existence. The turnout was good, particularly for the 'live' debate I participated in against the Grand Master himself of the state of Arkansas, Prince Hall affiliation. The attendance was around 300 people, most of whom were Masons in support of their Grand Master.

    Judging from the comments of some of the Christian audience, most Masons arrived on the scene with their heads high and proud, but left the debate with them hanging low and somber. While there were at least two that ended up renouncing Freemasonry as a result of the conference, our prayer is that the reaction on the faces of most at the end of the debate is a sign of conviction by the Holy Spirit.

    Sincerely in Christ,

    Mike Gentry
    Order of FORMER Freemasons
     
  16. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mike
    Have you ever petitioned a non-clandestian Lodge. You can not expect someone to just let you in because you say you are a Mason.

    Just for your info Mike there are a lot of Lodges that are clandastian not because they are black as you like to put it. But because they allow Athiest to join so these Lodges and others are declared Clandestian it is not because of race but the lack of the belief in a Supreme Being in whom they are accountable.

    Again Mike have you every petitioned a Regular Masonic Lodge one that is recognized by the Grand Lodge?


    Also how many people were lead to Christ at the convention thou I may not agree with what you are doing, bringing people to Christ is much more important how many were you all able to lead to Christ that were not Christian.
     
  17. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jacob asked:

    At the time I became a Mason, I petitioned, and was accepted into the Regular Masonic Lodge of Prince Hall Masons of North Carolina, who are recognized by more than 70% of all Regular Grand Lodges within the US. Again, your racist Grand Lodge is among the minority who fails to recognize the "regularity" of Prince Hall Masonry.

    Mike Gentry
    A FORMER Prince Hall Mason
     
  18. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    So your answer is No
    You did not petition a Regular Lodge

    Second My Grand Lodge accepts Africain Americains and has Africain Americain members and We have had Africain Americain members from other Grand Lodges in our Lodges but does not recognize Prince Hall Masonry. So it is hard to call it racist when it has Africain Americain members.

    Third Delaware was going to recognize PH Masonry, But PH Masonry did not want to be recognized by the Grand Lodge of Delaware.

    Tennessee recognizes Lodges over in Africia and other Lodges who have Africain Americain Memebers would a lodge who is racist recognize another Lodge that has Africain Americain members I think not.

    Fourth it is a Political issue I am sure racism runs on both sides of the Fence. PH Masons who do not what regular Masons and Regular Masons who do not want Ph Masons.

    So in the End you did not petitin a Regular Lodge but a Clandestian Lodge which is not recognized. Than you got upset because you Lodge was not recognized. If you petitioned the Regular Lodge and visited other Lodges there would be no problem.
     
  19. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jacob,

    You missed the point, if the vast majority of Grand Lodges around the world recognized PH Masonry as "regular" then Tenn. has no legitimate argument to call them "clandestine." I don't believe you have "token" black Masons in your jurisdiction. If so, please invite them to join the debate to prove me wrong on this issue.

    In the meantime, provide a legitimate explanation as to why your Grand Lodge (GL) deems PH "irregular" while more than 70% say that your GL is WRONG. Otherwise, you'll just have to accept the fact that the only reason is Tenn. Masonic RACISM.

    By the way, you asked about the conference, and yes a few Masons came to Christ and denounced the teachings of Freemasonry in the process. As for the debate, an audio recording can be heard at the following:

    http://www.ephesians5-11.org/2004_debate.htm

    Please feel free to share it with your Masonic brethren across the Internet so that they can see how God's Word prevailed over Masonic heresy.

    To Him be all honor and glory, Amen.

    Mike Gentry
    Order of FORMER Freemasons
     
  20. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mike you missed the point. The GL has not requirrment of race and since I do not know all of the lodges in tennessee it would be hard to check everyone of them. They was Africain Americans Masons at my Grand Lodge annual meeting if my Grand lodge was racist they would not have been there would they. Second the reason for not acknowledginf PH Masonry is mostlikey a political issue and not a race issue as I stated before Delaware tried to acknowledge PH Masonry and the PH Masons did not want anything to do with it, wether this has happened in TN or not I do not know.

    But regaurdless we have had Africain Americans in our lodges if we were racist they would have never made it to the door let alone sit in an open Lodge.
     
Loading...