Peter walks on water

Catholic Convert,

'we Catholics cannot see your point. It is because we look at the Bible as a whole.'

That sounds good of paper, but in reality you lean too heavily on the ecclesiastical tradition and ex cathedras coming from your elder brother, the pope.

We evangelical Christian pastors look behind every jot and tittle from Genesis to Revelation, and that is why many Catholics have no defense of faith coming out of the Word of God, the Bible. I am not a Baptist but Baptists are universally known, generally speaking, as people who know their Bibles. Why do we know the Word because this written Word comes directly from the Living Word Who we love and worship.

Remember--a verse a day will keep error away.

 

That sounds good of paper, but in reality you lean too heavily on the ecclesiastical tradition and ex cathedras coming from your elder brother, the pope.

None of which contradict the Scriptures.

Ray, do you SERIOUSLY think that dedicated, well studied, seminary trained, evangelical antic-catholics would just chuck everything they ever believed regarding the "Whore of Revelation" and "papists" and embrace the Church unless they could back up all those teachings WITH SCRIPTURE??

The teachings of the Church are defendable from Scripture. Carson has done a legendary job of giving you guys Scripture and exegesis. I have tried, and so have numbers of other Catholics, but for some reason, Scripture given by Catholics doesn't seem to carry any weight with you.

For instance, I have numerous times pointed to the redemptive work of Christ and its restoration of the family of God lost in the Fall. The title "the last Adam" is a dead giveaway that there is a strong covenantal connection between Adam the first and Jesus, and if Jesus is indeed the "last Adam," both replacing and fulfilling all that Adam was to the human race, then He MUST have a New Eve to take place of Eve the first. Without the redemption of the covenantal helpmeet given to Adam, the regeneration of the world and the Garden family is incomplete.

But you just blow this off as so much fluff.

Well, good for you. But DO NOT accuse us of not using Scripture and exegesis to try to prove our points.

 

We believe in the first Adam and the last Adam as recorded in I Corinthians 15:45* and 45-49. There is a lot of, if you will, spiritual meat there to digest, but when you because of your tendency to include Mary heavily in your theology you come up with an idea of Eve being the first woman and Mary being her counterpart. That's fine for your word games, but you will not find that in the Scriptures. Maybe we should also look for a first Cain and a last Cain. [Genesis 4:1] Then we could move up to the concept of a first Abel and a last Abel out of Genesis 4:2. Where do you suggest we end this chimera?

Again, understand that when Scripture says there is a first Adam and a last Adam, meaning Jesus Christ we welcome this. But, to simply out of the 'blue' come up with a first Eve and a last Eve, is only an invention and fantasy of the Catholic mind and is not founded as evidence in holy Scripture.

We have sixty-six books of Holy Scripture. We will even let you search in your additional fifteen Apocryphal writings for backing up the concept of the first Eve and the second Eve, meaning Mary the mother of our Lord.

 

"Preparing Your Heart for YAH’s Ship to Sail"
This is what I see from looking at the world today, and by looking at one
of the eight signs of John’s gospel found in John 6:15-21 also recorded in
Matt 14:23-33 and Mark 6:46-52

Today I see that we have many ship’s or "churches" sailing across
A sea of people with servants in these ships. Are these servants
of YAH? Or are they servants of sin ? Are the servants of YAH getting out
of those ships?

There are many churches today with Priest, Pastors and Ministers ,Teaching
doctrines of man. Proverbs 29:12 (If a ruler harken to lie’s ,all his servants
are wicked.)
Job 11:4-5(For thou hast said ,my doctrine is pure and I am clean in thine eye’s
5: But oh that EL would speak and open his lips against thee.)
These unpure doctrines give them the ability to manipulate people in
order to rise above the sea of people. Teaching doctrines that stem from Egypt,
even to Nimrod. Doctrines that keep people deaf, dumb blind, unable to walk in
YAH’s Laws, held down in slavery to sin.

In order to be a Set Apart or "Holy" servant you must weed out all doctrine’s
of man. Matt 15:9 Mark 7:7 Col 2:22 Eph 4:14 Rev 2:14-15 2 John 9-11

The directions to build the Ark did not come from man, they were the
directions of YAH. Gen 6:14-16 Heb 11:6-7 "I believe we are to build an ark
or ship again .Using only the directions, "law’s" Of YAH .Preparing to sail
that ark again, but not over water over people.
IsaYAH 17:12-14
Woe to the multitude of many people which make a noise l like ,the noise of
the sea and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing
of mighty waters!
13: The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters : but ELOHIM shall
rebuke them and they shall flee far off and shall be chased as the chaff of the
mountains
before the wind and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind …

It seems to me that the disciples of YAH are still building their ship,that YAHSHUA
is still gathering HIS disciples together. Showing them the plans of the ship.
A sailing vessel to carry the message of YAH.
Notice the sailing vessel is a ship not a boat. It takes more then one person to
sail a ship and a boat will not survive the on coming storm.
IsaYAH 29:6 Nahum 1:3-4 Ez 13:9-14
YAHSHUA is waiting for us to get into the ship and teach from the ship.
Luke 5:3 And HE entered into one of the ships which was Simons and
prayed him that he would thrust out a little from land and HE sat down
and taught the people out of the ship Please read on knowing that
(Luke 5:1-7 YAHSHUA will make us fishers of men.


I see studiers of YAH’s plan coming together as YAHSHUA call’s them
building a ship according to the masters plans .People of different races,
different personality coming of churches or religions. All seeing one
MESSIYAH walking on the water, one way to live, coming together
with their eyes on YAHSHUA. Soon YAHSHUA will be done showing
us HIS FATHER’s plans. And the Priest of the evil one will begin to stir the
waters that we must sail into.

Is: 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea when it can not rest,
whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
Is 43:14 Thus saith YAH your redeemer the set apart one of Israel; for
your sake I have sent to Babylon and have brought down all their nobles,
and chaldeans whose cry is in the ships.

Telling ME that their churches will not survive. YAH will bring them
down. We are all in slavery to sin none are walking fully in the way.
None able to walk on the sea as YAHSHUA. Free from sin. We can rise
above in a ship together, but not walk least we be overcome and drown.

John 6:18
And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew.
Eph 14:4That we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro and
carried away about every wind of doctrine by the slight of men and
cunning craftiness. Whereby they and lie in wait to deceive.

John 6:19
So when they had rowed about 5 and 20 or 30 furlongs they see YAHSHUA
walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship, and they were afraid.

Sometimes when I see the way I am really supposed to walk, it scares me.
I think of what others will think and see that my faith is really not that strong.
I see that I am drowning, temptation over comes me, but then YAHSHUA says

John 6:20
It is I, be not afraid. And in Is 43:5 fear not for I am with thee. It’s the most wonderful
feeling, for if you love me, Keep MY Commandments.

Mat 14:28-30
And Peter answered HIM and said MASTER, if it be thou, bid me to come unto thee on the water.
And HE said "come" and when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on
the water to YAHSHUA But when he saw the wind boisterous he was afraid, and beginning
to sink he cried MASTER save me. And immediately YAHSHUA stretch forth his
hand and caught him and said unto him, O thou of little faith. Wherefore didst thou doubt?
And when they were come into the ship the wind ceased.

If only we could have faith of a mustard seed when YAHSHUA calls to us standing on this
stormy sea. Faith to get out of the ship and walk as HE walked "sinless", to become perfect
even as FATHER who is in heaven is perfect.

I know I am still working , studying the plans The FATHER has given to me to build this Great Ship.
Preparing to sail and spread the wisdom of YHWH.

I believe I am a servant of the FATHER, preparing to teach with other servants of
YHWH from the ship we will sail together across the stormy sea.
YAHSHUA will say to me, come walk
with me and I will. I pray for the faith to keep the LAW’s of the FATHER YAH o. I pray for
the faith to walk correctly.

Mark 6:48 - And YAHSJUA saw them toiling in rowing for the wind was
contrary unto them:

The doctrine or wind that the people are learning from the servants in the
other ships or churches in the mist of this sea is contrary to the teaching of
the disciples. The people refuse to hear and except the words of YAHSHUA
that he taught to the disciples to teach and the waves rose up against the disciples
ship .

Micah 7:16
The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: They shall lay their hand
upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf, (all their might,their own might. They
put forth their whole might and it will fail them against the marvelous might of YHWH.
A ship built by the plans of YAHSHUA will not sink)Their ears shall be deaf; they shall be
silent as though they hear nothing. As if they were both dumb and deaf. Yet it seems
too, that they are willfully deaf shutting their ears out of envy and hatred.
That they might not hear what great things Yahweh has done for his people. Or hear
the voice of truth and be converted and healed.

John6:21
Then they willingly received HIM into the ship and immediately the ship was at the land
whither they went. The disciple’s foundation was now in the ship with them. The ship
was 25 to 30 furlongs out. About a half mile ,then immediately they were at the land and
the storm was gone.

John6:22
The following day when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there
was none other boats there saved, the save the one the disciples were entered, and that
YAHSHUA went not with HIS disciples into the boat, but that HIS disciples were gone away alone

John 6:23
How be it there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they
did eat bread after the master had given thanks.( notice, no other boat made it
through the storm.

John 6:24
When the people therefore saw that YAHSHUA was not there neither his disciples.
They also took a ship and came to capernaum seeking YAHSHUA.(notice the people
seeking YAHSHUA now. Seeking the way, the truth and the light.)

6:25
And when they had found HIM on the other side of the sea, they said unto HIM Rabbi,
when comest thou hither?
6:26
YAHSHUA answered them and said, verily, verily I say unto you. Ye seek me, not because
ye saw miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves and were filled.

They fed on the word of YAH and they were satisfied

6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting
life which the son of man give unto you: for him hath EL the FATHER sealed
6:28-71
1 Cor chapter 10
I see in away we are all babes in the faith unable to fully walk in the way as
YAHSHUA walking on the sea. Beginning to walk is still the very beginning
stage of our ever lasting life. YAHSHUA has so much more to teach us Look
carefully at YAHSHUA’s life and the Instruction of YAH.

HALLELUYAH

 

Remember--a verse a day will keep error away.



I just heard the other night that there are 28000 different denominations registerd with the US Government in the US alone. By this number there are roughly 4 times as many denominations as there are verses in the NT . There are There is a heresy in baptist and evangelical sects called open theism these days. A protestant whom I was listening to speak of it said there are about 15 different versions. Clint in another thread listed 60 or so baptist denominations. If they weren't denominated then there wouldn't be any contradiction. I have heard that there is a denomination born every 5 minutes. Shortly after the Protestant reformation (I think it was 1577) there was a book written called "200 Interprutations of the Words THIS IS MY BODY") and it goes on and on. Sincere Protestants believe in the Health and Wealth Gospel and Sincere Protestants believe in Zero Sum which are in direct contradiction to eachother (and both are wrong). Heck one guy on local radio embraced Zero Sum 4 years ago. Today he is at the other H & W extreme. OSAS, vs. Eternal Secruity vs. Arminianism, 10 views of baptism off my head.
To think all this has been a problem since the reformation and Sola Scriptura became a doctrine. Kind of makes your little quip above seem rather ridiculous. There are as many flavors of Protestantism as there are verses in the NT. Kind of makes the phrase "blown about by every wind of doctrine" come to life doesn't it.
All this is just plain sad.

Blessings

 

I think the Health and Wealth people might be saved people but most assuredly are emphasizing something that does not need to be accentuated. To me the Word of God is our manna from Heaven. The Gospel is written in the Bible so that others can come into the faith.

Non-Catholic denominations each emphasize a different part of the Bible. We do require that certain minimum standards be set in order for a person to be a Christian. For example, one must believe in the Divinity of Christ in order to be saved and a Christian.

We may have many denominations but at least we are not gullible enough to believe or swallow everything 'hook, line and sinker' that a man sitting in the Vatican tells us. We do not tell our congregants to leave their brains at the door, before stepping into the sanctuary. A person could have a 50--- I.Q. as long as he or she would say, "Yes, Master."

We have a cleaning company up here in the northeast called, One Source. Protestant Churches have one source, Jesus Christ, and one source of authority, the living and vibrant, Word of God, the Bible.

The Westminster Confession of Faith of 1647 offers up these ideas.

'The authority of the Holy Scripture . . . . dependeth not on the testimony of any man or church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the Author thereof . . . . Our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and Divine authority thereof is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness, by and with the Word, in our hearts . . . . Nothing is at any time to be added-whether by new revelation of the Spirit or traditions of men . . . . The Church is finally to appeal to them . . . . The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is Scripture itself.'

Again, our One Source is Christ Who has given to us His written Word, because He is the living Word of God.

 

"We may have many denominations but at least we are not gullible enough to believe or swallow everything 'hook, line and sinker' that a man sitting in the Vatican tells us. We do not tell our congregants to leave their brains at the door, before stepping into the sanctuary. A person could have a 50--- I.Q. as long as he or she would say, "Yes, Master"

Ray I understand since you believe in OSAS it is okay for you to insult people. There is little actual doctrine in the Catholic Church that any Pope has dictated. They have defended already held beliefs but I can count on my hand those that were set in stone with infallible statements. Once again your prove you ignorance of Catholicism. But then what's new.

4x denominations than verses in the NT of the Bible Ray. A verse a day keeps error away you say. Sounds like human pride to me keeping people from unity. What good do you think personal feelings "I feel the Health and Weathers are saved and I feel the Lord's supper is.. and I feel that Baptism does not save..." will be when judgement day comes Ray. Your post is really sad Ray.

"Again, our One Source is Christ":

Gee, A god who contradicts and divides. Must be some god. NOT.

 

Thessalonian,

Ray I understand since you believe in OSAS it is okay for you to insult people.

Ray is saying, 'I think your idea of 38,000 denominations was meant to make us look ludicrous; am I right? Plus, you insult our intelligence by feeding us absolute err using only the ideas coming from extra-Biblical sources, namely the popes with their add on theology.

There is little actual doctrine in the Catholic Church that any Pope has dictated. They have defended already held beliefs but I can count on my hand those that were set in stone with infallible statements. Once again your prove you ignorance of Catholicism. But then what's new.

I give you some credit on your above statement. For the most part as a pastor I am interested in truth, so I don't claim to be an expert in apostate doctrines. I do, however, know err when it boldly walks down the street. The infallibility concept is merely a cloak to wear so as to deceive the trusting Christian believers. Infallibility is a myth, fiction, legend or tradition cloaked in personal speculation.

4x denominations than verses in the NT of the Bible Ray. A verse a day
keeps error away you say. Sounds like human pride to me keeping people
from unity.

Ray is saying, 'Some denominations are built around different views as to baptism. Some churches baptize and immerse only once - in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, while other denominations immerse three times but always in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It seems trivial but to some groups this is of vital importance to their way of thinking.

What good do you think personal feelings "I feel the Health and Weathers are saved . . .

Ray is saying, 'Reverend Tilton has received Christ as Savior and I guess has been a pastor for several years, but to my way of thinking, he is off track because of his wrong emphasis coming from God's Word. Doctrine and motives for ministry will be uncovered at the Judgment Seat of Christ after Christ comes for His Church. [II Cor. 5:10] Some clergy and laity who thought they were big shots down here might be not as important up there in Heaven.

Thessalonian said, ' . . . and I feel the Lord's supper is.. and I feel that Baptism

Ray is saying, 'Only faith in Jesus and the merits of the Cross saves and brings with it everlasting life. [John 3:16; Acts 2:21; Acts 16:31] This being a fact, the Eucharist and baptism are not essential to personal salvation. The Table of the Lord and baptism, however, will be carefully followed because of our obedience to the commands of Christ. There is always a special blessing coming from these ordinances of the faith.

The thief on the Cross never got to receive Holy Communion nor was he sprinkled, poured, or immersed before his elevation to Paradise. Only the sacrament of Christ was offered with his ready response. 'Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.' [Luke 23:42]

does not save..." will be when judgement day comes Ray. Your post is really
sad Ray.

At the Judgment Seat of Christ even my posts will be evaluated by Christ as to their truthfulness and value, but then so will yours be tested, critically through the fire. [I Corinthians 3:13-15]

Ray said, "Again, our One Source is Christ":

Thessalonian said, 'Gee, A god who contradicts and divides. Must be some god. NOT.'

Ray-'Think of all the contradictions and divisions that the pope's ex cathedras have brought to the Christian table for review. It only proves one thing. Protestants and Catholics are human and subject to mistake. That is why God has given us the sixty-six books of the Bible. Only Christ is infallible! He is our One Source.

 

Rays post summed up:

We have the infallible word of God but 28,000 different interprutations of it. Tell me ray, are any of these conflicting theologies additions to the Bible. You accuse the Catholic Church of the very thing that is rampant in your Protestant denominations. You speak of other's errors Ray. Where are you in error? They like you believe they are correct, quite sincerley I might add, as I have spoken with many who have very different views from yours on scripture. God gave us his infallible word but with no infallible means of knowing what any of it means. For each scripture in the NT there is a denomination Ray. That is confusion and error and adding traditions of man to the word of God now isn't it. But your pride tells you I have this wonderful IQ and gee those Catholics are stupid. Yet you cling to your scriptural errors. The biggest one of which is sola scriptura which reeks of human pride. I, with my bible can calculate whom God is and don't need those shepherds he said he would send in Jer 3:15.

Blessings ray.

 

We have the infallible word of God but 28,000 different interprutations of it.
Tell me ray, are any of these conflicting theologies additions to the Bible. You
accuse the Catholic Church of the very thing that is rampant in your
Protestant denominations.

Ray is saying, 'Thessalonian, I cannot fully answer your question because I have not reviewed the 28,000 denominations which you allege. I read something this week that all Protestant denominations have come into being from only four main denominations. If I find the statement, I will most gladly place it in your hands.

You speak of other's errors Ray. Where are you in error?

Ray-The things that I write about are not in error. But, I also quickly admit that I do not have all the spiritual, theological answers to questions. For example, I have not figured out yet the matter of baptism. Baptists who think that the only correct form of baptism is immersion are clearly in a fog. Water was scarce and still is in Israel. Not everyone lived near the Jordan at the time of their new found faith, so they did not even have access to this quantity of water. The jailer after his faith in Christ did not have access to a public pool where he could be baptized, so sprinkling or pouring must have taken place.

I am not, at this point in my faith journey, going to say that baptismal regeneration is correct. It has to be proven to me. I see no problem with sprinkling a baby, child, or adult as a sign of the covenant to that one. [Acts 2:38-39] The sign of the covenant of the Israelites was circumcision and all male babies received this rite. They may have not come into the Jewish faith as adults but they were still marked in the flesh. Some died in the wilderness while others made it to the promised land. I say this, because no one has proven to me yet, that those who died in the wilderness went to Hell. Possibly they were taken to paradise prematurely, just as Christians can experience under the church age. [I Corinthians 11:30-32]

Thessalonian has said, ' . . . like you believe they are correct, quite sincerely I might add,
as I have spoken with many who have very different views from yours on
scripture. God gave us his infallible word but with no infallible means of
knowing what any of it means.

Ray-I agree with your above statement.

For each scripture in the NT there is a denomination Ray. That is confusion and error and adding traditions of man to the word of God now isn't it.

Ray-As I said before, most denominations emphasize various single-group teachings coming from the Bible. The Church of the Nazarene believes in personal salvation but emphasize holiness in the life of the Christian. Nearly all Baptists believe also in personal salvation but focus on the sovereignty of God and the fact that Christians receive, not temporary but eternal life when they find Christ or are found of Him. [John 3:16]

But your pride tells you I have this wonderful IQ and gee those Catholics are stupid. Yet you cling to your scriptural errors.

Ray-I never spoke of my IQ. I am sure there are many Catholics who the Lord gifted greater than me. Catholics are not stupid and have a lot going for themselves and their denomination, the Catholic Church. I cling to the truth of the Bible and eject error if I find it in my thinking and heart. I did a lot of this in Bible College. Thank God. At least I did not teach other Christians the error that I had been taught early on by well-meaning Christians.

Thessalonian--The biggest one of which is sola scriptura which reeks of human pride. I, with my bible can calculate whom God is and don't need those shepherds he said he would send in Jer 3:15.

Ray---If Scripture is wrong or in error then you are pointing to God who is in the inaccuracy mode. If the Lord God did not give us the intelligence, wisdom, and guidance of the Spirit, we would be in big trouble in understanding His Words of truth. It is not a matter of our pride. Self-esteem is fine with Him. Christian shepherds are vital for our instruction. These teachers must compare Scripture with Scripture not Scripture with the traditions of human men, namely the popes. Christ has given us true, shepherds already; it is your concern to find them.

Best regards,
Ray