CREATION: TWO BASIC VIEWS

This topic has been brought up several times on the creation/evolution forum. Near the top right now is a thread started by Deacon which I responded to which might interest some of those here.

Work on the speed of light issue is also there as a point of argument. Look for the name Setterfield in the lists and open the threads to read the back and forth there.

And we could REALLY use some more folks in that forum as well. The only reason it has to go past the administrators first is because the insults can get pretty hot and heavy and this way only the actual discussion gets posted. Laymen are more than welcome and the administrators do limit responses to only Christians or only Baptists when requested by the person starting the thread.

 

So, the Bible is truthful, yet not factual.
These two are different?
Yes. Jesus' parables are true, but the are not fact. They were not meant to be told as fact.

If the Bible says that the earth is round(which it does),
Actually, the OT describes a flat earth. Isaiah talks about the "circle of the earth". The Hebrew word for "circle" is chuwg which referrs to a disc, especially a disc with directional points (north/south, east/west). It DOES NOT mean a sphere. Still, what it says about the earth is true. But the desctiption is not fact. It was not written to be a factual description.

 

How can a person that claims to be saved not believe the Bible (all of it) to be truthful and factual?

Earlier in thie thread, I said that belief in a literal creation is not a Baptist requirement; it is also not a doctrinal requirement of Christianity. Hence, differing interpretations of Genesis 1 are biblically allowable. If someone says differently, they're wrong.

 

Yes, belief in a literal six 24 hour days creation is a fundamental Christian doctrine that is necessary for Salvation. Why do I say that? It is SO clear in the word of God? Since you know hebrew, you ought to know that day in this context of Genesis chapter one means ONE LITERAL 24 HOUR DAY. Again, if day doesn't mean 24 hours in this instance, then how can you be sure that day when referring to Jonah in the belly of the fish actually means three 24 hour days? Could it also mean 3,000 years? What you mean to say is that you accept the Bible, but only the interpretations that agree with man's thinking. Right?

You missed answering some of my other questions.
It all boils down to either you will accept Gods word, all of it. Or you will accept only what "science" has proven true.

One more point. A parable is truth but not factual, o.k. are you saying that the Genesis account of Creation is just a parable not to be taken literal?

LET GOD BE TRUE, AND EVERY MAN A LIAR!

 

Yes, belief in a literal six 24 hour days creation is a fundamental Christian doctrine that is necessary for Salvation.

I couldn't disagree with you more. No need to argue the point. I'm hellbound, according to you.

Matt 7:1

 

Helen and I have been around and around on this speed of light issue so most of you should realize we differ in our opionions on that!

Not going to rehash all the arguments, just remind everybody we have this profound disagreement. Its not just that we interpret the facts differently - we even differ on how reasonable it is to hold the views we do! But that's life in this world where God has allowed man free will of some sort.

Regardless of the extent of our differences - regardless of the importance of our differences - remember that we are all doing the best we can with the minds and hearts we've got in this sin darkened world.

 

Yes, belief in a literal six 24 hour days creation is a fundamental Christian doctrine that is necessary for Salvation

Count me as lost also.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him and also believes in 7-24 hour creation days shall not perish but have everlasting life.

What else can we add to the work of Christ?

 

"Mythical" is not the same as "untrue" in a theological context. The Creation accounts in Genesis describe our relationship to God and our inherent desire to sin. They are true. They are not, however, a scientific history of the creation of the world.

Joshua

 

"Mythical" is not the same as "untrue" in a theological context. The Creation accounts in Genesis describe our relationship to God and our inherent desire to sin. They are true. They are not, however, a scientific history of the creation of the world.

Joshua </font>[/QUOTE]I want to hear you say that to Jesus' face at the Judgment Seat of Christ when you are giving account for your ministry. Something tells me you won't be so quick to call God a liar then.

 

Harvest,

Where did I call God a liar?

Joshua

 

right about here...
"They are not, however, a scientific history of the creation of the world."

 

That doesn't sound like a lie. It sounds like a truthful understanding of Genesis.

 

I really don’t like the word “myth” when speaking about biblical accounts, its use can be inflammatory since it is a word that carries so much baggage. Here is one definition of the word.

 

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

You do not accept the word of God as truth. You deny the evidence set before you. If you don't believe in a literal six 24 hour days of creation, you cannot believe in any of the other instances in the Bible that mention 24 hour days such as Christ in the tomb, Jonah in the fish, Noah in the ark, etc. And thus you cannot be saved because who determines which parts of the Bible you will accept as truth or literal? Science? Man? God?

Dick Clark must believe like you people: one day is as a thousand.... because he hasn't aged

Christ is ALL we need for salvation, it is by God's grace. Yet, faith cometh by hearing the word of God. You reject parts of the Bible, so you must reject all of it. If you believe some of the Bible, you must believe all of it. God is not a man that He should lie, so when He said "the morning and the evening were the first day " we can trust in that truthful fact that it was a literal 24 hour day. We determine this because one morning and one evening equals a day to us now.

Since you don't accept a literal interpretation of the creation through six literal 24 hour days. Are you like the Jehovah's witnesses who say Christ rose spiritually and not bodily? Or are you like the Muslims and say that He never went to the cross at all? Was He in the tomb three literal 24 hour days or was it longer or shorter? Did day really mean 24 hours in that instance? What do you base your reasoning on?

God's word doesn't change. It will never be done away with. It will never be proven false. It will never conform to this world. It is God breathed. And my God does NOT lie. God said it, that's it, and I believe it.

LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN, WOMAN, BOY, AND GIRL BE A LIAR!

 

why?

I can't see the logic behind that statement at all I'm afraid

 

Deacon,

That is a fantastic book (as are Wendy Doniger's other writings) and is the perfect definition for this discussion. The quote you give is precisely what "myth" means in a theological context, which is why I use the term.

Joshua

 

The reason the creation forum took on its present format was to get away from the malicious posting, accusations and personal assaults. For this reason, I am closing this thread.

The debate may carry on in the ascribed forum. The verse, Let God be true and every man a liar,,,,says EVERY man.....I do not see an exclusion there because one is a fundamentalist or a liberal in theological viewpoint. Nevertheless, it is not becoming to lay such an accusation at anyone. Civility and decency is always in order, and has the most to gain on all sides.

Cheers, and God bless us ALL.

Jim,

Moderator