What About The Sabbath?! Many Baptists Do not Keep the Sabbath ..Why???l

Quote, PastorChet--"you may want to study the law a little closer.there is the law written by God and put inside the ark of the covenant versus the law written by Moses and placed on the side of the ark"

Pastor Chet, How does this have any bearing on the what Paul says in 2 Cor. 3? There he is definitely talking about the Law engraved in stone, i.e. the decalogue, saying it "was to be done away", and "is abolished". If that's abolished, then surely any corresponding laws of Moses are too.

Quote, BenW--"I can see why you feel that Acts is a "Transitional Book". Yet is that Scriptural? does it say specifically that the Sabbath is to pass away?
Jesus fufilled the law for sure. Yet the law and the Ten Commandments are not one and the same. You had to keep every single bit of ceremonial law for Salvation, yet now Salvation comes through the gift of Jesus Christ."

BenW, The O.T. Law was abolished (see comment above), so that does include the sabbath comandment. Keeping any aspect of the Law never saved anyone in the O.T. or now. It's purpose was the restraint of evil among an unregenerate people and a message of condemnation for them until the time of Christ.

The introduction to the ten commandments is clearly directed to O.T. Israel, i.e. "I brought you out of Egypt", and is given as reasoning for the first commandment, "thou shalt have no other gods before me"--a commandment that is a "given" for believers--otherwise, we're not believers. It clearly has a more important meaning when given to a people who were largely unregenerate. As Christians, we do God's will from a changed heart (a fundamental difference between the Old and New covenants)--so He's given us a higher standard than was expected of national Israel. Continuity comes from the continuing principles we see in the Law, not from a continued obligation to obey the specifics of the Old Covenant.

HankD, Good stuff.

A believer in the better covenant,

Tim

 

If the law is abolished as you say, then Jesus is a liar because he said he didn't come to do away with the law,but fulfill it. He warned about those who teach others to to break even the least of the commandments. James says that if we offend in one point of the law we are guilty of the whole. Seems we don't have to worry about that if the law is done away with. BUT IT ISN"T except for the antinomians who are great in number . Antinomianism is a great danger.
chet

 

So did Jesus "warn against" Paul? because Paul taught that circumcision is not necessary, and even said if we shall do that then we obligate ourselves to the 'whole law' (which you apparently say we are obligated to anyway)?

 

Dear Pastor Chet,

You wrote...

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

John 19: 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said,It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Acts 13
26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

Acts 15
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter…

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew 5:
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

…not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


HankD

 

Hank
I don't have my own righteousness either. It is through faith in Christ. You seem to equate keeping the Sabbath with salvation or some sort of works for righteousness. That's not the case. it's an issue of holiness and God's moral law.
I'm saved by grace through faith ,and that not of myself.
yet the law is still applicable as a standard to reveal sin. I'm saved, but I don't take the lord's name in vain,I don't worship idols,worship other gods,don't lie ,steal kill,Commit adultry(my wife is thankful about that one)covet etc. And for the same reason I now keep God's Holy day and honor it, It is an issue of Holiness not trying to be righteous. No where was 1 out of the 10 thrown out.
chet

 

Pastor Chet,
You may have brought us to the crux of this thread.

It appears that you focus on the 10 Commandments. Is that correct? Do you keep the rest of the law given to Israel, or just the 10 Commandments?

It appears that you believe that the 10 Commandments are different than the rest of the Law. Do you think that the 10 Commandments are somehow different, in that they are not just for Israel, but also for the Church? Is the 10 Commandments the only "Law" that the church is supposed to keep?

 

http://www.rezconnection.org/index.cfm/method/content.2B32A27A-6896-4A4C-98342F0CD8C5E194
http://www.rezconnection.org/index.cfm/method/content.28188658-BB05-4837-979C7A71F73FE777
Yes I do believe the Law (10 commandments are different than the rest of the law.
Here are links to 2 studies on my site you should at least look at.It would be better if you study more of the lessons, then when we talk we would at least be able to communicate better. Right now most of the problem is simply a lack of understanding of each other's position. I went to church on Sunday for 16 years and still pastor a Sunday church as well as pastoring a Seventh day baptist. I know how difficult and devisive the issue is. I won't go into my testimony about the Sabbath issue because it is available on the site also.
Blessings in Christ
chet

 

We definitely won't convert each other.
But, in the future, you might want to clarify very early in the conversation that you are not talking about the "Law" in general, but that your position is one that the 10 Commandments are different than the rest of the law given to the nation of Israel, and that the 10 commandments are for the church.
This will keep a lot of the "noise" out of the discussion.

 

Tim, here is a genine question my friend. Lets assume for a minute that the Ten Commandments are Abbolished which I do not agree with.

So then if we no longer want to keep the Sabbath, why not commit Adultery, Murder, worship Idols, disrespect our parents etc. If the Sabbath is Abolished then by the same reasoning so are all the other commandments.

The Ten Commandments are required to be kept today. It is an outworking of Christianity. Who would not want to keep the Ten Commandments if their life has been transformed by Jesus Christ?

As has been noted here, we see a difference between the Law, and the Ten Commandments.

 

There is a higher directive from God than the 10 Commandments.

MT 22:34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. [35] One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: [36] "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

MT 22:37 Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' [38] This is the first and greatest commandment. [39] And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' [40] All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The 10 Commandments were and are important. But with just these two that Jesus gave, a person can serve God in a pleasing way.

 

BenW & Pastor Chet,

The ten commandments are NOT the ultimate commandments in Scripture. qwerty's post above cites the scriptures that make that clear. When Jesus said not to break the least of these commandments in the Sermon on the Mount--He then proceeded to tell what the commandments were that He had in mind--i.e. an elevated standard from what the O.T. provided. Those were Jesus' commandments--and they went beyond outward behaviour to matters of the heart. Those are the commandments I keep by the grace of God--I guess that makes me an antinomian, though--because I think Christ's commandments are superior the decalogue??

I'm not a party to the Old Covenant, but to the New! Jesus already fulfilled the Old Law and gave us a better Law. That's why I rest in His work.

In Christ,

Tim

 

LAW AND GRACE

The final argument of those who observe the first day instead of God’s Sabbath is to claim that "the law is done away with, nailed to the Cross"; that we are not obliged to keep the Sabbath in this day of grace. If this is true, then one might ask why should we refrain from profanity, murder, adultery, and the rest?

In discussing the subject of "Law and Grace," we must keep in mind two important distinctions:

a. The Mosaic Code was threefold-Moral (Commandments, the Decalogue), Ceremonial (ordinances), and Civil (judgments). The moral law was a codification of universal and eternal principles. The other two were national and temporary, governing the religious and social life of Israel.

b. The "law," as a set of rules, must be distinguished from "law" as God’s method of dealing with sinful mankind between Sinai and Calvary.

A. The Character and Purpose of the Moral Law.

1. Psalm 19:7-11; 111:7-8; Matthew 5:18; Luke 16:17; Romans 7:12.

God’s law is perfect, complete, sure, right, pure, true, righteous, holy, just, and everlasting.

2. Romans 10:5; Matthew 19:17; Luke 10:28.

The law sets forth God’s will for man’s conduct-it defines perfection. To keep the Commandments perfectly would merit eternal life, but no one can do this." All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." A provision has to be made for our justification.

3. 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20,28,31; 7:7.

One looks at the perfect standard, realizes that he has broken it, and thus is a sinner, for sin is the transgression of the law. The law declares us guilty and shows us our need of a Savior.

4. 1 Timothy 1:8.

The "lawful use" of the law is to convict us of sin, just as a mirror shows us our physical imperfections. It is a diagnosis, not a remedy. The remedy is the Gospel, but the diagnosis must come first.

5. James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23a.

We might add to, or paraphrase, the first reference this way: "He who said, ‘Do not murder,’ also said, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ Now, if you do not commit murder, but do desecrate the Sabbath, you have become a transgressor of the law." This is sin, and the wages of sin is death. However, Jesus paid the penalty for us (cf. Galatians 3:10,13), so we are free from the curse of the law, which is death. But are we free to ignore the law and break it?

6. Isaiah 2:2-3; 66:22-23.

During the millennium, and on the new earth, the fourth Commandment will be kept.

7. Galatians 3:23-26.

"Law" and "Grace" are not opposing systems but component parts of the same plan: the redemption of sinful mankind. Salvation has always been "by grace through faith." In the Old Testament, men were saved that way. God’s grace was active in the sacrificial system of the ceremonial law, so that their transgressions of His moral law might be "covered." But grace was not fully revealed until the death of Christ. The moral law is our schoolmaster; it leads us to Christ by showing us our sin and our need for a Savior. The ceremonial law, with its sacrifices, teaches us about Christ and His atoning work, and thus "leads us to Christ."

B. Was the Moral Law Repealed?

1. Matthew 11:13; Luke 16:16; John 1:17.

The "dispensation" of law ended with Jesus and was replaced by the "dispensation" of grace. But let us not think that there was no grace before Calvary. As soon as man sinned, God’s grace came into action. The Lord provided a way to forgive sins and remove guilt as soon as the need arose.

2. Matthew 5:17-18.

Jesus Christ did not abolish the law, but fulfilled it. He fulfilled the moral law by perfectly obeying its spiritual meaning, and He fulfilled the ceremonial law by taking the place of all the sacrifices.

3. Matthew 4:14; Romans 13:10; Galatians 5:14; 6:2.

"Fulfill" does not mean "do away with."

4. Galatians 3:23-25; 4:1-2.

A schoolmaster or tutor ensures that a father’s will is carried out until his son comes of age. Then the boy is directly responsible to his father, and does his will. He now obeys, not because he fears the schoolmaster, but because he loves his father.

Under the law, obedience was demanded. But under grace, it is "written in" (see Hebrews 10:16). We keep the principles of the law because we love God, who is our heavenly Father by the new birth. The old system is done Away with, but the moral requirements of the law remain.

5. Romans 10:4-5.

We do not obtain righteousness by observing the law. We obtain it by faith in Christ, whose righteousness is ascribed to us. This does not mean that the principles of the Decalogue are now invalid. It simply means that we are not enabled to be made "made right" by observing them. Because of God’s indwelling Spirit, we do those things which His law requires. Christ is not "the end of the law," nor "the end of righteousness," but the end of striving to earn righteousness by observing the law. (Cf. Luke 22:37 where we read that Christ is the "end of the prophecies"-i.e., He is the purpose and object of them.)

6. Colossians 2:14-17.

The "handwriting of ordinances," including the ceremonial Sabbaths, was nailed to the Cross. The weekly Sabbath was not an "ordinance" nor "against us" (cf. Mark 2:27). It was the system which was abolished-the method God used to deal with sinful men between Sinai and Calvary.

7. Ephesians 2:14-16.

The "dividing wall" consisted of the "ordinances"-the Jewish ceremonial system which did not include the weekly Sabbath. The ordinances were part of the definition of sin.

Conclusion

The "Law" was indeed done away with in Christ. But it was the system, the method, the "dispensation" which was abolished, not the standard of conduct contained in the moral law. These principles were not changed nor abolished. Through faith, we have a new relationship to them.

It is foolish to say that "the moral law was done away with." In that case, there would be no sin (cf. Romans 6:1-2, 14-15). This would result in anarchy, since sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4).

 

you say the 10 commandments are a subset of the law? Take the time to study this rather lengthy response then see if you still say that.
There are three primary texts in the letters of Paul that are used by some Christians to show that the Sabbath does not apply to Christians today.

They believe that these Scriptures show that the Sabbath was done away with. These texts are Colossians 2:16, Romans 14:5, and Galatians 4:10.

In order for us to explain these texts, we must go back to the Old Testament. From the Old Testament, we must understand the distinction between the ceremonial law and the moral law. We must also understand the relationship between the weekly Sabbath, the special holy days, and ceremonial Sabbaths.

The Two Laws

In the life of Israel, the people were very concerned about the Law of God. They used the word "law" to refer to the Ten Commandments (moral law), the Torah (first five books of the Old Testament), and the whole Old Testament. To the Israelites, all Scripture applied to them, and it was all "law." The Israelites did not make distinctions in the law, just like most Americans do not make distinctions between federal, state, and local laws. But to the God who gave the Law, was there a difference in the laws? The answer is "yes."

Deuteronomy 10:1-5, 12-13 describes the giving of a law. From the context and description of the law involved, it is clear that it refers to the moral law, or Ten Commandments. The text tells us four things about this Law:

Written on two tablets of stone.

Written by God with His finger.

Law placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

Law given for the good of the people.

There is a second law described in Deuteronomy 31:24-26. This law is clearly different from the Ten Commandment Law described in Deuteronomy 10. This text also tells us four things.

Written in a book.

Written by Moses.

Law placed beside the Ark of the Covenant.

Law given as a witness against the people.

It should be obvious, even to the casual observer, that these passages refer to two different laws. If the law described in Deuteronomy 10 is the Ten Commandments, what law is described later on? The ceremonial law is the one being described in Deuteronomy 31.

It was the ceremonial law-with its commands regarding animal sacrifice, festival days, and unclean foods-which was completed and fulfilled in the death of Christ. These laws no longer apply to the Christian believer today.

Part of this ceremonial law involved the establishment and regulation of festival days and special holy days which were called "sabbaths." These special Sabbaths were not the weekly seventh day Sabbaths. Most of the time, these special or "high Sabbaths" did not fall on the seventh day of the week. In Leviticus 23:32, the Day of Atonement was called a "Sabbath," even though it did not fall on the seventh day of the week.

The weekly Sabbath is also tied to the ceremonial law because on the seventh day Sabbath, animal sacrifices were to be a part of worship. (See Numbers 28:9-10.) Finally, the Sabbath is part of the ceremonial law in that it is one of the feasts or "appointed times" listed in Leviticus 23.

Therefore, the weekly seventh day Sabbath is part of the ceremonial law and also part of the moral law. The weekly Sabbath is part of the ceremonial law because it is one of many of God’s "appointed times." The weekly Sabbath is also part of the ceremonial law because sacrifices take place on that day. There were also "Sabbaths" which were part of the ceremonial law, but not weekly Sabbaths.

Colossians 2:14-16

The Apostle Paul is dealing with two false teachings in the

second chapter of Colossians. First Paul is dealing with an early form of Gnosticism which had begun to creep into the church at Colosse. This was a pagan belief where everything physical was considered evil, and a person sought fulfillment in mystical experiences and worship of angels.

Second, Paul was dealing with false teachers who insisted on strict observance of the ceremonial law and the teaching of the elders.

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him (Christ), having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:13-14).

We must ask what "written code" was "against us" and nailed to the cross. Scholars suggest several good options for interpreting this text. First, in this text the word "written" is literally "handwritten" in the original Greek. Second, the code that was cancelled was "against us." We are then looking for a handwritten code that was against us. We know that t his is not referring to the Ten Commandments (moral law), because Deuteronomy 10:13 says that the moral law was given for "our good."

The ceremonial law was handwritten by Moses (Deuteronomy 31:24) and was placed beside the Ark: "There it will remain as a witness against you" (Deuteronomy 31:26). There is strong evidence to suggest that it was the ceremonial law Paul is referring to as being nailed to the cross.

If the ceremonial law was taken away and nailed to the cross, then we would expect the New Testament to say that the sacrifices, dietary laws, and special festival and holy days (sabbaths) would be taken away also. The Apostle Paul does go on to say this in the same text in Colossians 2.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

Examine the progression of thought in Colossians 2:14-16. First, the Apostle Paul says that the ceremonial law was taken away and nailed to the cross. Paul then uses the word "therefore" to introduce the conclusion, or result, of having the ceremonial law taken away. Having the ceremonial law taken away means that we are no longer to be judged by dietary laws, festivals, or sabbath days.

In verse 16, the Apostle Paul gives examples of items from the ceremonial law that no longer apply. He begins with dietary laws, which are ceremonial. He then goes on to the religious festivals and New Moon celebrations, which are ceremonial. Then he talks about "Sabbaths" (no the weekly Sabbath), which are also ceremonial (Leviticus 23:32). It would seem inconsistent for Paul to give clear examples from the ceremonial law, and then switch suddenly to an example from the moral law. The "sabbaths" whose observances are not to be judged are the ceremonial "sabbaths," and the ceremonial aspects of the weekly Sabbaths.

The fact that the ceremonial Sabbaths (not weekly Sabbaths) and the ceremonial aspects of the seventh day Sabbath are canceled, does not affect the requirements of the moral law regarding the Sabbath. The Sabbath "was made for man" at creation and written by the finger of God in stone, in the Ten Commandments. Not one tiny aspect of this moral law (Ten Commandments) regarding the Sabbath will be changed "until heaven and earth disappear" (Matthew 5:17-18)

An example of having two laws on the same matter could come from our own legal system. It is possible for the state and federal governments to have laws which apply to the same matter, such as civil rights. The fact that a state may change or abolish its civil rights law does not mean that a person is not bound by the federal law on the matter of civil rights. In the same way, God had two laws which applied to the weekly Sabbath. The ceremonial law dealt with the matters of sacrifice on the Sabbath, and the moral law dealt with attitude, conduct, and the other issues related to the Sabbath. Abolition of the ceremonial law regarding the Sabbath sacrifices had nothing to do with changing the moral law regarding the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giventh God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. (Romans 14:5-6).

The Apostle Paul is addressing one issue, the ceremonial law. But he gives two examples of its use-special holy days, and items regarding food. The whole point of this text is that people should not be judged in matters related to the ceremonial law.

If this text dealt with the weekly Sabbath, then it would require a change in the Ten Commandments. The Fourth Commandment tells us to rest and keep the seventh day Sabbath holy. Paul is not saying that one of the Ten Commandments is optional, depending on whether you are convinced in your own mind. That would be like saying that adultery or murder is permissible if a man is "fully convinced in his own mind."

Galations 4:10-11

"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

The people of Galatia had begun as pagans "under the basic principles of the world." They believed in the elemental spirits of earth, wind, water, fire, etc. These beliefs included sacred times and places. The Galatians were slaves to "those who by nature are not gods" (Galatians 4:8). This could refer to their belief in the elemental spirits, which are not gods at all.

The contrast now is that they know the true and living God, or are known by Him. Paul goes on to chastise the Galatians for going back to their weak and miserable principles, and once again becoming enslaved to them.

One argument is that they are turning back to their original pagan, elemental spirits or powers. In this case, they would be celebrating or observing "special days and months, and seasons and years." This is clearly against the gospel taught by Paul when he started the churches.

The second possibility is that with the coming of the Judaizers, they were not going all the way back to pagan elements; they were convinced instead to begin keeping the law of Moses (ceremonial law). To Paul, slavery to the ceremonial law was no better than slavery to the elemental spirits. In this case, they would be celebrating the Jewish festivals of the ceremonial law, which was contrary to Paul’s teaching for the church.

With either interpretation, the seventh day Sabbath is not in question. The Sabbath is part of the moral law-which is just, holy, righteous, and good.



Questions for Study and Discussion

Fill in the following chart.

"The Two Laws" Deut. 10 Deut. 31



On what written -----------------------------------------------

By whom written? -----------------------------------------------

Where placed? ---------------------------------------------------

Purpose of law? --------------------------------------------------

Which law is it? ---------------------------------------------------



Describe how the Sabbath is part of the ceremonial law and the moral law. (When the ceremonial law is done away with, the Sabbath command from the moral law is still in place.)

What is the written code referred to in Colossians 2:14? Give good reasons for your response.

What are the "Sabbaths" referred to in Colossians 2:16? Give a good reason for your response.

In Romans 14:5-6, what is Paul saying about "regarding" certain days as "special"

What are the special days, months, seasons, and years referred to in Galatians 4:10-11?

How does an understanding of the two laws affect our understanding of the Sabbath and how it is to be kept?

 

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE A SUBSET OF THE LAW.

Yep, I sure can say it.

 

Pastor Chet,

I don't see where you addressed Paul's statements about the Law "written in stone" being "abolished" in 2 Cor. 3. How do you get around that?

Also, your paraphrase of Gal. 3:24, "The moral law is our schoolmaster; it leads us to Christ by showing us our sin and our need for a Savior." is innaccurate.

Paul states this in the PAST tense, not in the present tense. It is a historical statement which related to the Jews, i.e. the Law was their schoolmaster until the coming of Christ. He does NOT indicate that the O.T. Law is still anyone's schoolmaster.

In Christ,

Tim

 

In Genesis 2:3 God states that He "Sanctifies" the Seventh Day.

Jesus kept the Seventh Day as the Sabbath, being without SIn, he validated Saturday as the correct Day.

If you study the Hebrew word, Sanctified, you will see that It means "Consecrated" and "Made Holy"

Yet nowhere in the New Testament does it say that the Sabbath is not to be kept. Not one sentance. Yet Circumsision is changed in the New Testament and given nearly a whole chapter. Surely if something COnsecrated and Made Holy by God was to be changed, He would say so.

Instead we find references in the New Testament showing the church meeting on Saturday, and waiting until the following Saturday, rather than Sunday to complete the Teaching.

The ROman Catholic Church did however change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is absolutley not one scrap of evidence inthe bible to suggest that Saturday is now Sunday. Conversley many churches who have not yet fully shaken off Catholiscm, teach that Sunday is the Sabbath.

Catholic teachings like Cellibate Priests, Purgatory, Praying to Mary etc are Apostate, and have no place in the church. The Doctrine that Sunday is the Sabbath is in the same basket. If the bible does not specificaly say that what God has made Holy has Changed or has become Redundant, then Its definatley ongoing.

 

We keep going in circles.

I'm getting dizzy.

First of all, while the Ten commandments have not been "abolished", they are not the "rule" or way of life for the children of God.

The Ten commandments are encapsulated in the Torah, the way of life of the Old Covenant made with the Nation of Israel . The Torah knows of no such division as the "moral" "ceremonial" or "civil" law when it comes to the keeping thereof but requires every jot and tittle upon the penalty of a curse.

There are no details as to the "keeping" of the seventh day apart from the Law.
To do no work on the Sabbath is a precept initiated in the Torah.
To cut up the Law and keep the pieces we like but not the others still invokes the curse of the law-breaker.
Nowhere in the Law itself are we excused from certain parts of the Law but not others.
Keep it all or die.

Galatians 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Now after you have tried and the Law has "slain" you as a result of breaking the Law you are then free to come to Christ.

The Law has nothing more to say to those whom it has put to death.

Galatians 2
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 5
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now, if believers wish to "keep" the Sabbath from a faith platform , then by all means imo they should do so.

Personally, I am not led of the Spirit to do so, and that is not to say that my walk in the Spirit is any better or worse than theirs.

What can be said, I suppose, is that the Spirit leads both the weak and the strong in the faith with what they are able to bear.


Peace to all.


HankD

[ March 26, 2003, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

HankD's quote,"First of all, while the Ten commandments have not been "abolished", they are not the "rule" or way of life for the children of God."

Hank, I don't see the difference here, they are "abolished" according to 2 Cor. because they have been superceded by superior Law--just like an old will(or testament) is replaced by a newer one. That doesn't mean many things won't be the same--it's just that the new contract is now the only one now legally binding.

HankD's quote,"The Ten commandments are encapsulated in the Torah, the way of life of the Old Covenant made with the Nation of Israel . The Torah knows of no such division as the "moral" "ceremonial" or "civil" law when it comes to the keeping thereof but requires every jot and tittle upon the penalty of a curse.

There are no details as to the "keeping" of the seventh day apart from the Law.
To do no work on the Sabbath is a precept initiated in the Torah.
To cut up the Law and keep the pieces we like but not the others still invokes the curse of the law-breaker.
Nowhere in the Law itself are we excused from certain parts of the Law but not others.
Keep it all or die."

Hank, I absolutely agree. That's why we don't need specific instructions to abrogate individual commandments in the O.T. Law. The Old covenant was fulfilled in it's entirety by Christ, and he established a New covenant with believers.

A believer in the better covenant,

Tim

 

Yes, we agree in respect to those who are the children of the New Covenant and I understood what you meant by the word "abolished".

The Law still has a "lawful" use today for those who are not part of the New Covenant...

Romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 Timothy 1:
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

When we are born from above we are no longer in Adam but are "baptised" into Christ

.


and partake of the nature of the one who gave birth to us (God is love).

1 john 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love...

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We don't need to be commanded to love God and our neighbor.

Sheep don't need commandments to keep them out of the hog wallow and in the green pastures.
They love the Good Shepherd, they love one another and follow Him.


HankD