1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Good somebody give me some background on the following 2 Bibles?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by mioque, Jul 30, 2003.

Top Posters
  1. mioque

    mioque New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    The illustrated national Family Bible
    Withe the commentaries of Scott&Henry
    Containing many thousand Critical & Explanatory notes, selected from the great standard authors of Europe and America.
    Edited by the rev. John Eadie, D.D., LL.D. Professor of Biblical Literature to the United Presbyterian Church

    It is a KJV. It is a big late 19th century Bible, clearly intended by the publishers as a wedding gift.
    I know it sells on the internet for 240-300 euro if it is in good condition. (no I'm not interested at all in doing that). Currently I don't even know who Scott&Henry are.


    The Family Rosary Edition of the Holy Bible
    To Jesus through Mary
    Edited by Reverend John P.O'Connell M.A.S.T.D.
    imprimatur Samuel Cardinal Strich (archbishop of Chicago) June 4 1953

    It contains instructions on how to pray the rosary, it has pictures of the American cardinals of the time. It contains reproductions of famous paintings . And when God speaks it is printed in red ink. It is a Douay-Rheims translation.
    I find the the thing hilarious, the elders in my church think of it as an abomination .
    I figure it must be some kind of practical joke by the US RC church to freak out the fundies 'cause this thing is just to weird to be taken serious. Any body any info on this thing?
     
    #1 mioque, Jul 30, 2003
  2. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    they shdn't freak out, as the Douay-Rheims was one of a number of translations the KJB translators depended upon for their 1611 Bible.

    ;)

    personally, i don't think the Douay-Rheims is much superior to the KJB, but we mustn't despise it or any of the other predecessors of the KJB, such as the Geneva n Bishop's Bible, LXX, n Vulgate.
     
    #2 Forever settled in heaven, Jul 30, 2003
  3. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think they are Bible commentators of some sort;it may be worth having.

    Definitely RC. :eek:

    They used it for reference,but thats it.
    The KJB translators knew what was what.
     
    #3 Anti-Alexandrian, Jul 30, 2003
  4. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    They used it for reference,but thats it.
    The KJB translators knew what was what.</font>[/QUOTE]At 1 Corinthians 10:25, Tyndale's, Matthew's, and Bishops' Bibles have "market" while Coverdale's and Great Bibles have "flesh market." The Douay-Rheims and KJV have "shambles".

    At Genesis 1:28, "fill" is in Wycliffe's, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, and Geneva Bible while the KJV translated it as "replenish" in agreement with the Bishops' and the Douay-Rheims.

    At Revelation 18:13, "bodies" in the word in Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, Great, and Bishops' while KJV has "slaves" in agreement with the Douay-Rheims.

    More examples could be given.

    Also, KJV translator John Reynolds had a brother, William, who was a translator for the Douay-Rheims.
     
    #4 BrianT, Jul 30, 2003
  5. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Mioque,

    I don't know who Scott & Henry are either, sorry.

    No, but it doesn't sound too unusual. Both Catholics and Protestants have published various editions of the Bible that are "themed". Visit your local Christian bookstore, and see the "Prophecy Bible" (it's an NIV, I believe) where all the study notes, etc, center on prophecy, usually end-time prophecy.

    In my collection, I have several "themed" Bibles. I have a "Cowboy" Bible (NIV), a "First Communion" Bible (NAB), a "Masonic" Bible (KJV/Revised parallel, complete with a large, gold, embossed 'all-seeing-eye' on the cover).

    Are you interested in selling the Catholic one? Or do you at least have any pics? I'd like to see it. [​IMG]
     
    #5 BrianT, Jul 30, 2003
  6. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    1
    mioque asked:

    Currently I don't even know who Scott&Henry are.

    Don't know about Scott, but I'd put money on Henry being Matthew Henry.

    I figure it must be some kind of practical joke by the US RC church to freak out the fundies 'cause this thing is just to weird to be taken serious.

    If it has the imprimatur, then that means the edition is in line with Catholic doctrine. I suspect it's dead serious. Actually, if all it has is images of cardinals and instructions for the rosary, it's downright normal compared to some of the Catholic devotional literature out there.
     
    #6 Ransom, Jul 30, 2003
  7. AV Defender

    AV Defender New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Granted.But you failed to explain WHY the Douay-Rheims reads like the AV in a number of places;of course the Douay-Rheims will agree with the AV in many verses.Here is why:

    1)The Douay Rheims was a English translation of the Latin Vulgate.


    2)The Latin Vulgate was compiled by Jerome;Jerome corrupted the OLD LATIN(Waldenses,etc) when he revised it to bring it in line with Rome.


    3)The OLD LATIN agrees with the AV;in fact,the Old Latin derived from the same Protestant texts of the reformation the AV did.


    What is the importance of this? How does this affect the product the AV translators produced??
     
    #7 AV Defender, Jul 30, 2003
  8. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know why, but it appears it is because the KJV translators preferred the Rheims wording in these (and other places) over the wording of all the prior "Protestant" Bibles. Your comments aroub the Vulgate don't make much sense, because these places are not places of textual variation, but are about how to translate non-variant Greek.

    What is the importance of this? How does this affect the product the AV translators produced??
    </font>[/QUOTE]No real importance, I just find it very interesting. [​IMG]
     
    #8 BrianT, Jul 30, 2003
  9. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    u sure u want to say that? [​IMG]

    yes, keep going ... [​IMG]

    no, not so fast. u've just been shown how the AV agrees w the Douay-Rheims (which u also concede!), which in ur own words agrees w the Vulgate, which in ur own words differs fr the Old Latin.

    u have NOT shown that the AV is directly related in any way to the Old Latin, so get over it. [​IMG]

    why do i have the feeling that KJBOism can claim anything--so long as the conclusion is "right"? :rolleyes:
     
    #9 Forever settled in heaven, Jul 30, 2003
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have sat in the cave in Bethlehem where Hieronymous (Jerome) translated the Bible into the common vernacular - Latin - so that all educated men could read and study it.

    For his work, I am grateful. All this malarky about old latin and waldensians (neither of which would be allowed in a KJV church today) is another sad, sad KJVO smokescreen.
     
    #10 Dr. Bob, Jul 30, 2003
  11. mioque

    mioque New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    It may greatly surprise some of you but, I have earned 2 Degrees at a respected accredited university.
    http://web.eur.nl/english/
    I'll just mention this because certain respondents seem to think that I'm incapable of jumping to even the simplest conclusions.

    BrianT
    "In my collection, I have several "themed" Bibles. I have a "Cowboy" Bible (NIV), a "First Communion" Bible (NAB), a "Masonic" Bible (KJV/Revised parallel, complete with a large, gold, embossed 'all-seeing-eye' on the cover)."
    Cool (or rather KEWL). The only themed Bibles commonly sold in The Netherlands are art-Bibles
    http://www.vanrietschoten.nl/chagallbijbel.htm
    With Marc Chagall and Rembrandt van Rijn being the most popular.
    That cowboy Bible and that freemason Bible sound about as funny as the one I have.

    "Are you interested in selling the Catholic one? Or do you at least have any pics?"
    Sadly for you, no on both counts. No interest in selling the thing and no access to a scanner in the near future.

    Ransom
    "but I'd put money on Henry being Matthew Henry."
    I recognize the name, sounds very plausible.
    Me a supposedly professional churchhistorian knows next to nothing about him.
    Maybe I should have spend less time studying the popes in university and used that time to bone up on folks like him. On the other hand Henry probably wasn't nearly as pleasantly sordid as your run of the mill Renaissance pope. ;)
     
    #11 mioque, Jul 30, 2003
  12. mioque

    mioque New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just realized I used good instead of could in the title of this thread [​IMG]
    Mmm... I thought I had conquered my dyslexia by now. :(

    Ransom
    "I suspect it's dead serious. Actually, if all it has is images of cardinals and instructions for the rosary, it's downright normal compared to some of the Catholic devotional literature out there. "
    You are probably right. Allthough I've had to read tons of Roman Catholic writings and this seems as funny as the writings of Anna Catharina Emmerich (the nun who got the lives of jezus and Mary 'televised' into her brain in the 19th century).
    Come to think of it Mel Gibson is using one of the books of Anna as sourcematerial for his film "The Passion".
     
    #12 mioque, Jul 30, 2003
  13. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    0
    No it is not. What it does is it compromises your ability to pontificate to people who do not know any better;you know,keep em in the dark..Sad.Very,very,sad [​IMG]
     
    #13 Anti-Alexandrian, Jul 30, 2003
  14. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. why wld we be surprised?

    2. what 2 degrees--sounds interesting! either of them in religion, text crit, translation, or anthropology?

    3. respected accredited--for each, by whom?

    4. "I'll just mention this because certain respondents seem to think that I'm incapable of jumping to even the simplest conclusions"--pffft, was that a joke? where i went to school, most kids were punished for jumping to conclusions! :D
     
    #14 Forever settled in heaven, Jul 30, 2003
  15. Haruo

    Haruo New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's what I was thinking, was surprised it took so long for anyone to say "Matthew Henry"! mioque, I'm sure you can find all you care to know about Matthew Henry, one of the great English commentators, through a Google search.

    Actually, the imprimatur just means that some functionary (usually an underling of the bishop whose name and cross are appended) said it was not contrary to Catholic doctrine. If the bishop or his reader was a heretic, or inattentive, it could well be affixed in error.

    Haruo
     
    #15 Haruo, Jul 31, 2003
  16. mioque

    mioque New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    Haruo
    Yes, the difference between theory and practice when it comes to imprimatur.

    Forever settled in heaven
    "1. why wld we be surprised?"
    Read MV-neverist's first reply and watch him (to use a Dutch proverb) kick in, already open doors.

    "2. what 2 degrees--sounds interesting! either of them in religion, text crit, translation, or anthropology?"
    I'm both a churchhistorian and an arthistorian. This is usually the moment where I suggest folks to read some of my published works, but alas all of it is written in Dutch (English teachers reading my posts on this board can sigh with relieve now :D ).

    "3. respected accredited--for each, by whom?"
    In the Netherlands, just like in the USA, there is a system to seperate, degree mills from real schools. I was [​IMG] that my alma mater is a real university.

    "4. "I'll just mention this because certain respondents seem to think that I'm incapable of jumping to even the simplest conclusions"--pffft, was that a joke? where i went to school, most kids were punished for jumping to conclusions!"
    You furriners with your silly dialects :D .
    What I intended to say was, that I can see the obvious . I don't need the obvious explained to me.
     
    #16 mioque, Jul 31, 2003
  17. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    o that's wonderful! how's the background been helpful on the issue of Bible versions? i like both ch history n art--wldn't be surprised that both shed light on what we're talking about.

    n yes, do get ur published works into English. at least their titles! :D
     
    #17 Forever settled in heaven, Jul 31, 2003
  18. mioque

    mioque New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of my books was translated for the Italian market. Suddenly I was a devout Roman Catholic, at least that's what it said on the back of the Italian edition.
    I figure they did it in the hope that it would help boost sales.

    "how's the background been helpful on the issue of Bible versions?"
    It is truly helpfull in seeing the importance certain translations can have culturally.
    However being able to perceive the foolishness of certain arguments used in Bible versions debates can make on seasick.
    It is all that :rolleyes: eyerolling you see, makes one feel nauseated after a while.
     
    #18 mioque, Jul 31, 2003
  19. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    1
    mioque said:

    [me:] "but I'd put money on Henry being Matthew Henry."

    I recognize the name, sounds very plausible.
    Me a supposedly professional churchhistorian knows next to nothing about him.

    Henry was a 18th-century British Presbyterian pastor. He authored a six-volume commentary on the whole Bible (completed posthumously by others) that is a classic reference work. It's well worth the read - Henry was very strong on application.
     
    #19 Ransom, Jul 31, 2003
  20. Haruo

    Haruo New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    0
    #20 Haruo, Jul 31, 2003
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...