What is the purpose for discernment?

Maybe it's because doubt is one of the devils most useful tools.

 

Maybe you should rethink this comment. A person may learn incorrect doctrine. Or he may learn correct doctrine, yet reject it. But if that person is in sin, then it is our duty to make him aware of the sin. Discernment gives us the ability to see that sin. As Tentmaker has pointed out, The Word of God gives us the ability to be a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
No Calvinist thought in that!

 

No, I meant what I said. There are plenty of times a man might learn incorrect doctrine and even teach it. But then he learns better and repents. The doctrine was wrong all along. The person no longer is.

We do not EVER have the right to judge a person's heart. That is known only to God. That is precisely what we are forbidden to judge ("Judge not, lest ye be judged.") We can only see the outward parts, not a man's inmost being. "The Lord looks a the heart" is what the Lord reminded Samuel when he was looking for a king for Israel among Jesse's sons. Proverbs 20:27 reminds us that it is the lamp of the Lord that searches the spirit of a man -- his inmost being.

It is our right and responsibility to hold a person's actions and words up to the plumbline of Scripture. We must correct what we find to be false by that measurement.

Here is an example: either Calvinism is correct or it's not. And yet we dare not judge each other's hearts who are on the opposite side, do we? We will acknowledge that the other obviously loves and honors the Lord. And yet those opposing each other certainly think the doctrine of the other is wrong!

I have found other examples, in the Bible itself. As science has progressed, we have started to understand what is meant by some of the Bible references which some translators actually translated AWAY from their original meaning in order to fit their own understanding. I am sure the translators today do the same. This may not yield changes in major doctrines, but it can cause confusion. Is there anyone here who is willing to say of these interpreters who work in prayer and determination that their hearts are evil? And yet we can correct some of their misconceptions regarding certain interpretations of meaning! One very good instance is where the King James is right and the NIV wrong (and I am NOT a KJO person):

Psalm 74:16 (NIV)
The day is yours, and yours also the night;
you established the sun and the moon.

The word translated 'moon' there is 'maor'. 'Maor' is NOT 'moon', but 'light'. But the NIV translators, thinking they understood the intent, wrote 'sun and moon.' Scientifically, however, each star is, literally, a light holder -- the light is different from the physical star itself -- the same with our sun. Therefore, in the King James, which in this case stayed truer to the original (and perhaps unknown, to the Psalmist) meaning, we read

The day [is] thine, the night also [is] thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.

Not a big deal as the entire Bible goes, but enough of an example to ask if they think the NIV translators have evil hearts because of this.

Perhaps it should also be said that at any time any number of preachers who dearly love and truly serve the Lord might be teaching something 'off' or flat out 'wrong' in their doctrine. Are they doing it deceitfully and intentionally? Are they doing it because they themselves learned wrongly? Are they doing it because they are young and have not had the experience to understand something more fully?

We all see through a glass darkly. We all make mistakes, even in what we teach sometimes. When I retired from teaching, I finally had time to read some of the journals that I never had time for during the many years I was teaching. I was stunned and angry to learn I had been teaching some wrong things to my biology classes. But it was what the textbooks had and I didn't know differently, for it was what I had learned, too. Was I then evil or intentionally deceitful regarding what I taught?

We need to be very, very careful regarding our judgements of people. It is one thing to tell me that I was teaching wrong facts in a class; it is entirely another to tell me I was being intentionally evil and deceitful.

I am quite sure many Christian teachers and ministers are in the same position. I am quite sure no one teaches God's entire truth, but that we each put a somewhat personal spin on it which is dependent on what we ourselves have experienced and know.

So there is a much more lengthy reasoning on why I said what I did.

In Psalm 139, the beginning and ending verses read

O Lord, you have searched me and you know me.
...Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.

Who else has searched a man's heart? Even the man himself does not know his own heart, but must beg God to search it out and know it.

We cannot presume to know one another. We can only judge actions and words in light of the Bible.

There I stand.

 

I think you are totally misunderstanding discernment and judging. To discern is to see the sin. Judging condemns. These are two different things. To discern and tell a person his sin is not passing judgement. It's discerning and helping a brother in sin. Because you are tolsd you are wrong doesn't mean you have been judged. You still have a choice to change. Discernment is our ability to see the sin.

 

In that case, we have no disagreement.

I will judge anyone's sins via the discernment given by Scripture. But I won't touch judging a person's heart with a ten-foot pole!

Or longer

 

Molly, this is a good thread. Thank you for starting it.

It's been my observation here at the BB that many people are very set in their ways, no matter what Gods word says on certain subjects. I myself have been guilty of that, but I praise God for His word and for the ability to study issues out according to the scriptures. Sometimes it takes a while for the truth to sink in though, and it's times like that when I thank God for His patience with me.

But I also thank God for brothers and sisters in Christ who will proclaim Gods word even when it's not the popular opinion. God has used such people in my everyday life and here at the BB to show me errors in my beliefs by steadfastly proclaiming the word of God. I thank God for allowing me the discernment to recognize truths from His word even when it made me uncomfortable and wasn't necessarily "politically correct".

There are certain issues that have been discussed here lately that some people are quite sensitive and defensive about. I admit to being one that was sensitive about certain issues. But when those issues were held in the light of scripture, I had to admit that my personal views were wrong according to the word of God. There was no other conclusion that I could honestly arrive at and still be honest about what God said on the subject. There simply was not a scriptural leg to stand on (so to speak) for my position and so I repented of my incorrect views.

Anyway, all of this was to say to those who honestly contend for the faith from scripture, there are those of us who 'get it' and appreciate it!

God bless you in your faithfulness.

 

The reason is we are seeing the fulfillment of God's prophetic Word. See 2Timothy 3:1-13; 2Peter 2:1-22, and Jude 3-16 among others.

 

Oh, Amen, Tentmaker, Amen!

The forces of darkness & evil are trying to condition those who do not discern so they will be deceived.

 

Please examine the following:

2 Timothy 2:2-5 (ESV)
2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

What do we read except that Paul said these people were what he described. "For people will BE..." He is using words to describe the kind of people they are. He was NOT describing what they do or what they believe. Just look at this list. Then, he gives the command to AVOID them. Therefore, all believers are to examine the theology and the kind of person someone is. Then, if they fit any of this description, you MUST separate/distance yourself from them out of obedience to God's Word.

 

Sadly PTW some of these verses describe me before I was saved, I am thankful that you were not the person who God sent to show me His love. I feel that these verses might also describe the poor robbery victim on the road to Jerico but the Good Samaritan saw fit to minister to him. I agree that we should not allow those with wrong doctrine to teach but I hope you would not be too quick to judge those who are just wrong and need to be corrected. It reminds me of the way Priscilla and Aquilla ministered to Apollos and corrected his doctrine.
Murph

(edited for clarification)

[ February 26, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Preach the Word ]

 

Murph, I agree that love, mercy, and patience needs to be shown toward people (especially those to whom we share the gospel). I think though that Paul is warning Timothy in this passage of those who seek to be in the "church" or might creep into the "church". On that basis, there is more reason to be very firm on doctrine and showing zero latitude on false doctrine.

If this was a matter of evangelism, Paul would not tell us to disagree with them.

Let me restate, when I run into those with false doctrine, I seek to declare the whole council of God with much kindness.

 

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.(KJV)

1253 diakrisis (dee-ak'-ree-sis);
from 1252; judicial estimation:
KJV-- discern (-ing), disputation.

1252 diakrino (dee-ak-ree'-no);
from 1223 and 2919; to separate thoroughly, i.e. (literally and reflexively) to withdraw from, or (by implication) oppose; figuratively, to discriminate (by implication, decide), or (reflexively) hesitate:

KJV-- contend, make (to) differ (-ence), discern, doubt, judge, be partial, stagger, waver.

We need to be able to judge which no one wants to do what is sound doctrine and as it says in this passage to be able to tell good from evil in all aspects of life. You can't do that if everything is up for grabs based on individual preference, taste or cultural mores.

1 Thes 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. (KJV)

1491 eidos (i'-dos);
from 1492; a view, i.e. form (literally or figuratively):
KJV-- appearance, fashion, shape, sight.

The only way to be obedient to 1 Thess is to be able to discern good from evil in all areas even so-called gray ones.