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Good evangelism or Scam?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    What did Jesus mean when He said, "Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." Luke 14:23

    Were not these people invited to a great supper as an incentive to come?
    </font>[/QUOTE]The supper is a type of heaven or the Kingdom. In no way could this passage be used to say Christ is giving us an evangelistic tool. Yeah lets have potluck dinners every week so we can get people to come to our church. The kingdom, heaven, is the incentive, that is what the supper is.

    Is there something wrong with using things like dinners and other tools as evangelistic tool? No. But they can become wrong when they become the central method of evangelism for a church. It produces a "whats in it for me" mentality at the church.

    IFBReformer
     
  2. superdave

    superdave New Member

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    I think I have been to Pastor Bob's church, the one with the "reserved for pastor" space closer than the handicapped slots.

    Churches are run by "children of God", not by pastors or by boards. Congregational rule is not a negotiable issue when I am looking for a church. If I have a problem with what the leadership is doing, I will address it, in the proper forum, and with the proper attitude, I'm not advocating disrespect mind you, but the attitude you expressed by the follwing comment

    Is one of the most serious problems I have with almost every IFB church I visited while looking for a church a couple years ago. Don't ever question the man of God!

    My father was a pastor of several IFB churches while I was growing up, and he always valued the input of the body. Some people will always complain, but you have to at least evaluate the concerns, since they are sometimes valid, even when the attitude is wrong, or the way they address it is wrong.

    My church has a strong pastor, he is a very driven person, and demands commitment from his staff, and the members of the church, it is no place to get lost in the crowd that is for certain, but his attitude is one of humility and grace. He views his role as a servant of the Church, not as the grand pooh-bah!

    IFBReformer's commments would be a concern if he were a member of the church he is addressing, and had not already taken his concerns to the leadership, but in looking for a church, I heard some things that genuinely disturbed me about the philosophy and theology of several of the churches, and I am not one to let those in leadership off the hook because they are "called" by God, or because they are sincere in their ignorance.
     
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    You must be mistaken my friend.
    1. I walk to church.
    2. We have no "handicapped slots."
    3. The only handicapped member we have gets to park on the sidewalk next to the front door.
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Side bar question? Aren't you required to have handicapped parking, one for every xxx spaces?? My cousin's church got cited for this a few years back.

    Back to the topic: To make a characterisation on a church based on whether it has a "reserved for pastor" parking space is a gross and unrighteous misjudgement.
     
  5. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    TIME OUT John!!! Your church has "xxx" spaces? Only in California I guess... :D [​IMG] :D [​IMG]

    Talk about being desperate to get sinners to come in...
     
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Eeeek!!!!

    I should have said "insert number of spaces here".
     
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    SuperDave, your satire was not missed by everyone! [​IMG]

    It is one thing to give a little poem to dad or a flower to moms or smiley face stamp on the back of the hand to junior, but it is deceptive to try to attract a crowd by shuckster tactics like a side-show barker.

    Hey, I WAS a pastor like that. I sat on the roof of my church and had dinner. I swallowed a goldfish. I used every "incentive" (bribe has a negative concept to it) to get folks in.

    Then I realized that God's church was for God's people. Give out the Gospel and see people born again THEN bring them to church.

    We have put the cart before the horse, folks. Trying to scam (or with altruistic heart) folks into church and then preach the hell out of them. That just isn't biblical.

    And if a believer needs a flower or poem or smiley face or they will not come, let them stay home. They show their true colors . . .

    (Step off soapbox. Next?)
     
  8. PackerBacker

    PackerBacker New Member

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    So what’s wrong with eating a gold fish or sitting on a church building if it gets someone into the church? Look at the lengths Paul went to in order to get people saved. If he would give his soul up for the Jews, surely he would eat a goldfish. He probably even was eating it while standing on his head on the roof of the First Baptist Church of Antioch, while the winner of the “most visitors award” was throwing a pie in his face. Now that will compel them to come in! Surely I jest.

    I could not agree more with Dr. Bob. Things are so turned around today that many IFBers I know think I’m some sort of heretic for expressing the same type of comments about the church.

    By the way, Super Dave was cracking a funny and did not come across as being gross. I’d bet having been around many pastors with his father, whom he says was a pastor, he saw enough of the real gross abuse that actually does take place.
     
  9. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

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    What did Jesus mean when He said, "Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." Luke 14:23

    Were not these people invited to a great supper as an incentive to come?
    </font>[/QUOTE]again, I have no problem w/ incentives per se...we have had "Friend Day" here, giving Bibles (KJV at that) to the persons who had the most guests. But I think we cross that line of incentive, when we bribe the folks by offering to the bus kids a doughnut, candy, tricks, etc. We have to be careful that we aren't teaching them, esp the kids, to come to church to "get something" of material value. I don't have the perfect answer, b/c I'm not 100% against incentives; but I think it oughtta be the exception, not the rule.
     
  10. Pluvivs

    Pluvivs New Member

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    Interestingly, my pastor preached on the wayward or "prodigal" son Sunday even, and noted something that I had not noticed before: the son returned to his father with the wrong motives altogether.

    Clearly, he wanted to leave the pig sty, and also clearly he knew his father's house was so much nicer that it was better to be a servant there than in that foreign land. Nevertheless, he never admitted his son-ship, never appealed to the father's relationship with him, and it apparently never entered his mind to do so until his father dragged him into the house. Even though the father ran to him (because he was waiting and watching for the son to return), he still began reciting his speech he prepared in Luke 15:19 (note how the father cuts him off before he can finish in v21)!

    I suppose that the father was happy to see the son, no matter what the motivation was for his return. How very much that parable is like the passage in John 6, where Christ openly declares that the people followed him "because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled." Nevertheless, Christ did not send them away, but rather taught them to labour for the meat that endureth unto everlasting life.

    -Pluvivs
     
  11. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    I agree with what your saying but careful how you define bribery. Bribery is what you pay to get someone to do something wrong, or bad, however , rewards are what you give to do something good.
     
  12. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    I'll tell you something else that is a disgrace to the name of Christ - a child of God judging the motives of a church and pastor.

    </font>[/QUOTE]Not when the motives are a scam, those type of people are called pew packers, more interested in how many pews they can pack, and not how many they can reach the gosple to. the best way to get people to church is to set it on fire (no I don't mean to burn it down) but to set fire to the hearts of the members that they go out and win souls and gain church members in the prosses. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. BornBaptist

    BornBaptist <img src =/9147.jpg>

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    You mean those Churches where the worship is more important than the Ministering of the Word of God. AKA Pentecostal Church?

    Yes, I've been to those, I spent alot of my young life in them, and Now, I've come to the place where I've decided that the Pentecosal's have some serious issues, and I've decided to leave that movement behind and come back to my roots as a Baptist.

    Worshiping the Lord is such an abused term by the Charismanics.

    Sorry guys, but I've been there and done that, and I know what I'm talking about...

    From a Former Pentecostal...

    BornBaptist
     
  14. BornBaptist

    BornBaptist <img src =/9147.jpg>

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    Sorry to say, But I'm an old fashoned believer, and I say, if you gotta hand out GIFTS to get people in the Church, then the problem is with the PEOPLE of world and not the Church.

    I don't believe in bribing people to come to Church.

    Just an opinion... :D

    BornBaptist
     
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