THE KINGDOM, Have you not read?

Amen!!! John Wells, to both of your posts. Well said, and full of the truth.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

KJV Hebrews 10:28-30
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

The contempt here demonstrates a complete rejection of Christ as Savior and Lord. It is not addressed to believers but to non-believers. In case you think “he was sanctified” is referring to a believer, it is not. It is referring to the object imperative of this sentence, “Son of God.” See John 17:19

KJV 2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

“Judgment seat” metaphorically refers to the place where the Lord will sit to evaluate believers’ lives for the purpose of giving them eternal rewards. It is translated from the Greek word bēma, which was an elevated platform where victorious athletes went to receive their crowns. Since we read elsewhere in scripture that God promises to “remember our sins no more,” it stands to reason that the “judgment” of believers will be in terms of more or less rewards. Sin judgment will not be a part of it.

KJV Romans 11:19-22
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Once again, these verses speak of and to non-believers. Compare verse 22 with:

“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. Matthew 13:20-21

This and Romans 11:19-22 are speaking of non-believers, Lacy. You are a pretty good discerner of REO Speedwagon lyrics, but apparently, not the Bible!

 

And you want things more simple than reality reveals! Let's analize your statement that I bolded. The atheist thinks they "know" that there is no God. Abortionists think they know that there is nothing morally wrong with killing "tissue" in a mother's womb.

Many unsaved people think they "know" that they are saved, when in truth, they aren't. They know of the Savior and agree with biblical principles and teachings, but they don't know/love the Lord their Savior with all their heart.

And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ Matthew 22:37

You can love the Lord with you mind (head knowledge) but unless you also love Him with your heart and soul (heart knowledge), you are not a born again believer.

So you can call my "psychology" whatever you like, Lacy, but it's your reasoning that doesn't line up with reality, truth, and scripture!

Lacy, just out of curiosity, since you seem to struggle with the whole "false believer" term and concept, do you believe that everyone who claims to be a Christian is one? If not, then what is wrong with the term "false believer," or are you just playing a game of semantics?

 

I believe that everyone who believes that they are a sinner with nothing to offer God, and who believes that Christ paid their sin debt with his own blood on the cross is saved eternally.

I'm not playing games brother. John 3:16 is quite serious.

lacy

 

Great Lacy!

I'm glad we've put this silly "some believers will have a 'layover in hell'" false teaching to rest so that we all can get back to being about our Father's business . . . sharing the gospel with the lost!

 

How do you tell if someone is a false believer? I agree with Lacy, the false brethren in Galatians were people who knew they were not Christians and were being deceitful. But if you believe that the warnings I asked you about refer to false believers, how do you know if you are a false believer? Better yet, how do you know that you are not a false believer?

 

Better yet, how come a "false believer" has to obey all the warnings whereas a"Real" believer does not? I thought we were saved by grace.

Lacy

 

Ah, the desperate attempts to save a defeated heresy!

Nowhere does the Bible tell us any saint will experience hell, and having proven that, I have no desire, as you folks seem to have, of continuous devisiveness!

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. - Titus 3:10-11

See also 2 Timothy 2:23-26.

 

Isaiah 30
1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

 

No one is holy without Christ. Christ is our holiness. Without Him we are filthy.

 

Isa 7:9b, ..."if ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established."
Augustine, The "patron saint" of mv believers said, "There must be some starting points that are things accepted as true before reasoning can begin."
Since ye "heresy" shouters will not even consider that you may be wrong, your argument against it is defeated.
When I was saved, I first had to believe in God. The same thing is true of all you "heresy" police. Therefore, in this respect, Augustine was right about you. The implication is that you; who will not at least agree to a true starting point: are indeed unreasonable.
It might do you all well to read up on the 3rd century North African Catholic Scandal. There are blatant simlarities to the prevalent attitude at that time, and the "spirit" of superstition you all are displaying against this particular topic.
All reason, all Scripture, all infallible proofs are useless to the closed minded. And before you try to hurl such things back at me, let me remind you that I have been saved for over 24 years. I am no novice. I have searched and prayed and studied, with an open mind as to the POSSIBILITY that this might be true, howevermuch I wanted it to be untrue.
He that comes to God must BELIEVE that he is and that he is a rewarder to those who diligently seek him. This is true of all of us. They who hurl insults, mockeries, and labels of "heresy" before completely investigating any claim are to be pitied.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all arguments, a proof against all reason, and cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation."
William James. (loosely quoted)
Though he is certainly not a christian man, there is a tremendous truth he has given here. It would do all men tremendous good to take heed to it, especially we of faith in God.
And one more thing. "If I have... all knowledge... and have not charity, I am nothing."

I am suddenly reminded of the "certain ones" who stopped up their ears, gnashed with their teeth, and cried out in a loud voice, just seconds before chucking rocks at a saint of God who brought them word from God.
In His service;
Jim

 

Pr 18:13
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

 

On the contrary Jim, if you go back and review the LOF thread and this one, I have given numerous scriptures supporting what I believe. I didn’t even have to go into my interpretation of them since their plain wording is so obvious. I have not had a single response/explanation on how ANY of those scriptures do not mean what they clearly and obviously mean.

Now look at all the rebuttals I provided to your camp’s position and the scriptures you base your beliefs on. Once again, I have not had a single rebuttal to my responses, but rather just more vague, out of context scripture referencing. If there is any camp that is not considering they might be wrong, who are close-minded, who are blindly clinging to what they want to believe, it is your camp.

Not only is your emotional appeal falsely applied, it actually applies to your camp and not mine! I don’t have the time nor the inclination to continue providing words that are falling on deaf ears. Practically all of New Testament scripture is based on God’s completely turning aside His wrath from those who come to Him in faith, believing in the FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS. I have asked for an explanation of “having been justified,” and how one can be subjected to punishment afterwards, and have received no response. I have asked for an explanation of how sins that the Bible says have been completely atoned for, can require further payment, and have received no response. Explain how God who has declared me completely justified and assures me that my sins have been “bought with a price,” can, when I die say, “Off you go to pay for some sins!”

Rather than making emotional appeals and unsubstantiated accusations, Jim, try answering some questions!

 

Here are a couple more verses. Where is "hell for the believer" to be found in these promises?

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her (having cleansed her) by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and BLAMELESS. Eph 5:25-27

Where is room for this "Kingdom Truth" sin, blame, punishment nonsense?

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed (released) us from our sins in his own blood Rev 1:5

Is Jesus' washing/releasing not permanent and sufficient? The Bible says it is! "Kingdom Truthers" say it isn't!

". . .Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.'" Rom 3:4

 

Eph 5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Just 20 verses before you have a warning about not inheriting the kingdom. Do you supposed saved people have to be warned not to be unsaved? If a person is walking in sin, they are not practically washed in the water of the word. Jesus says those that are washed need not be washed again, except their feet. But you have to have your feet washed, brother.

John 13
4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Ye are clean, but you better get your feet washed, or you will have no part of Him.

 

Just as I suspected, more spewing of scriptures . . . and no answers!

You don't answer my questions because there is no scriptural answer that supports your false doctrine.

 

Here is a recap of most of my questions. Please answer them.

Does God not say, “Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.” Hebrews 10:9-18

Does God not say we HAVE BEEN sanctified?

No one has dared touch this powerhouse scripture:

then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And on their mind I will write them,” He then says, “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Hebrews 10:9-18

Does God not say (above) that “He has perfected (positionally, not physically) for all time those who are sanctified?”

Does God not say we HAVE BEEN justified?

Does God not say we HAVE BEEN redeemed?

Does God not say ALL OUR SINS are forgiven?

Does God not say He will "remember our sins no more?"

Does God not say that He has offered salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him? Hebrews 9:27-28

Is there such a person as one who believes they are born again when all they really have is "head knowledge," not "heart knowledge?"

Where does the Bible tell us any saint will experience hell?

I have asked for an explanation of “having been justified,” and how one can be subjected to punishment afterwards, and have received no response.

I have asked for an explanation of how sins that the Bible says have been completely atoned for, can require further payment, and have received no response.

Is Jesus' washing/releasing not permanent and sufficient?

 

I guess that is your opinion and your entitled to it, but at the judgment seat you will not be able to say no one told you that the Lord was going to hold you accountable.

1Peter 4
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

1Cor 3
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

Luke 16:11
If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

What is in view here? Sin or unfaithfulness? They are the same. Therefore, Jesus plainly says if you are not faithful in even the use of your money, He will not entrust to you "true riches".
This has NOTHING to do with salvation, but rather your behavior after becoming HIS OWN.

Luke 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion WITH the unbelievers. (not AS an unbeliever but WITH the unbelievers)

Plain English my friends. Jesus is talking about His second coming, the judgement of HIS servants, and the consequences of wickedness in HIS servants. Ye are bought with a price. That price is not to be lightly thought of. Neither is that fact that YOU are NOT your own. You are HIS and He can and will do what He wills with your carcasse.

Say not we have been redeemed and have no fear, but rather, we have been redeemed by a PRICE and we have a DUTY to our OWNER. At best you/we are unprofitable servants. Get it in your head. You are bought by God. Although you are indeed His child, you are still OWNED by Him and He DEMANDS obedience. Or which of you would not chastise your OWN kid? Yet you deny this to our God?
How very foolish and unbiblical.

Luke 12:4-5
And I say to you my friends be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, fear Him.
This was spoken to HIS FRIENDS ! Don't you get it? You say you are saved? A friend of God now? Yet you deny the very words of God in the flesh by twisting the Scriptures so they no longer apply to you? How very foolish.

Smack dab in the middle of our Lord's discourse on the end times he tells us to be ready and watchful. He then tells us what a faithful and wise servant can expect. He follows this with what an evil servant can expect. In context, read Matthew 24:44-51. This parallels the passage in Luke. This is clearly a Kingdom passage yet you "scholars" would dismiss it with a multitude of excuses. Oh the faithful servant is a christian but the evil servant is an unbeliever. Oh this is not talking to the church because it is pre-cross. Oh this is talking to the nation of Israel. Oh this only applies to His immediate disciples before the Holy Spirit was given. Oh this is works and we are saved by grace.
All of which puts you under indictment by our Lord for you "teach for doctrine the commandments of men".
Instead ye ought to heed the words of our Lord in Luke 6:46-49. "Whosoever cometh to me and heareth my sayings and doeth them I will shew you to whom he is like;..."
How is it you miss the order of things we are telling you? Come to Jesus. (get saved) Then OBEY Him. (get rewarded)
You CANNOT show that the disobedient or unfaithful is anywhere commended by Jesus. In every case Jesus deals with restoration, but and if that man will not be restored, he will have his portion with the hypocrits, and unbelievers.
You cannot show otherwise.
Do you propose that just because you have been saved that you are no longer under obligation to be obedient or faithful? THAT position my friends is heresy. It is license to sin. What shall we say then? Shall we sin that grace may abound? GOD FORBID! is the shouted reply of the Apostle.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God? He that defiles the temple of God, him shall God destroy. How does that fit into your neat little package? No, sir.
The call of Scripture has always been obey God!!!
Ye who would make excuses are not wise. But Jesus forgave me of ALL my sin!! Is the reply. Amen is the affirmation! Now OBEY Him. As He is your KING, your God, your Father, your Master.
Or do you think your King/God/Father/Master will just excuse you?
No sir. Let God be true and every man a liar.

In His service;
Jim

 

What? Not a single answer to my questions? What a pity! What a shame! I could go through your scriptures verse by verse and show you the error of your understanding, but since you will not even touch my scripture references, why should I? You aren't LISTENING anyway! Have your heresy and your cult!

. . . Dusts the bottom of his sandals . . . disconnects!