Patriotic Worship

I personally love the patriotic songs and the pledge of allegiance. I see nothing wrong with doing this in church. We should thank God for liberty and the freedoms we have in this country. Our preacher preached on the freedom we have to worship as we please without interference from the government and the freedom given by God through Jesus to accept eternal life. I thought it was all very appropriate. There are so many in the world who do not have the freedom to do either.
I do not see the pledge to our flag as incompatible with our faith.

Daniel, I do believe if I hated the South as much as you do, I would be moving to a region where people felt the same (if you can find such a place). It must be tough living here among us "losers" and hard to keep up all that ill will in a region as pretty and as hospitable as the Southern US. You are going to give us Southerners a bad name if you keep this up.

I finally figured out what part of Middle Earth you are really from. I do believe the great eye of "Mordor" is calling you.

 

Some folks, especially up North, have a hard time not thinking of slavery and cross burnings when they see the Confederate flag. I would no more display a Confederate flag than I would a Nazi flag. And I'm of German descent. To a black person, the Confederate flag means the same thing as a Nazi flag to a Jew.
Why can't we let it rest in history and rally 'round the flag of the United States of America?

As far as patriotic music in church, I think if it is in praise to God for our freedom, or a prayer to God for blessings and safety for our nation, that it is OK. But you can't equate Christianity and Americanism, because then you've gone too far.

"America the Beautiful" is a prayer. Most people misunderstand the words, "God shed His grace on thee." "Shed" is not the past tense of anything. The line in effect is saying "MAY God shed His grace on thee, and crown thy good with brotherhood..." The verbs "shed" (to shower or disperse) and "crown" (to add to or complete) are requests.

 

Just to be sure, you are talking about the rebel flag, right? The same one that still flies over Klan rallies (yes, they're still around), as well as neo-Nazis and skinhead gatherings and almost every other crackpot militia movement out there? That is the flag you're calling "a Christian flag in the truest sense, that represents freedom from tyranny?"

And to cap it off, Lea responds, "Go Granny!" I'm sure she meant that to pertain to the things you said that made sense.

 

The God of the King James Bible...wasn't He the God of the Geneva Bible at the time of the Pilgrims?

 

This Banner you seem to detest is NOT the "KKK" flag, nor is it a "rebel" flag, nor a "civil war" flag, or a symbol of slavery, nor is it a sign of hate/racism. The Confederate fathers were Godly men.

The "official" flags of the KKK are the U.S. Flag(the Stars and Stripes) and the Protestant Flag. Klan bylaws do not say anything at all about the display of the Confederate Battle Flag at their meetings or events. But the Klan bylaws very clearly state that the U.S. Flag and the Protestant Flag MUST be displayed at every meeting and event.

The majority of Klansmen & Klan activities do NOT fly or display the Confederate Battle Flag. Also note, that the Klan is NOT a "southern" institution. The majority of Klansmen are YANKEES and the largest Klan chapters are in the NORTHERN states.

So what if a relatively small number of Klansmen choose to fly the Believer's Banner at their activities?! BTW, I am NOT a Klansman, nor do I endorse them. I don't endorse the Masons either. And I don't belong to any Militias or to any other group. I do my stuff in publick, in broad daylight, on the side of the road. I hold signs. What do you do, besides agitate?

 

A person may be proud of their heritage and the banner that is displayed concerning that heritage. But, one goes a little to far to call any flag of either the US or the Conferacy the "Believer's Banner". There is no flag national, regional or religious that is my banner. I will simply trust in Jesus and His Word.

Bro Tony

 

Unfortunatly I have to some what agree. I am a from the north and my husband from the south. I always liked the Confederate flag and DH naturally being from the south loves the confederate flag. We do not see it as any part of the KKK or slavery. DH is proud of his heritage and likes to have a small sticker of the confederate flag along with the american flag on his cars.

I did notice a few weeks after placing these stickers on our cars, most our neighbors stopped talking to us. We did nothing to them and did not change our attitude toward them. Most are white and we have one that is black. We in no way associate this flag with the above mentioned. But as with all prejudices we were singled out and ignored. I have lived here for 16.5 years and for the last 4 years we don't even say howdy to our neighbors anymore.
It's a shame that we are only allowed to display certain things here in America. Like gays kissing in public and marrying. That is ok according to America. Pornography smeared all over our streets and television is OK according to america.
Kids cussing at "ANYONE" and acting as if the world owes them, is ok, according to america.

Adultery is definatly ok, according to america. Heck they even made a show on TV that it is OK to swap mates. Married people cheating on their spouse on national TV. ONLY IN AMERICA! According to america this is ok.

Foriegners freely let into our country and kill thousands of people. According to America, this is ok.

And we are here disputing weather or not patriotic things belong in church. Hmmm. Seems pretty stupid to me. Petty! There are much bigger fish to fry than to worry about who is and who isn't pledging allegence in church.

The same people who fuss about what goes on in church are the same people who are "one timers". Meaning, they get their fill of church one time a week and we should be thankful they graced our presence.
The same hypocritical people who will sit for hours in line next to someone and NEVER share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with them. Or hand out tracts. Or read their Bible. These are the people who have to dust their Bible off every week.

It is so sad to see people in church watching other people to find their place in their bible. Some never find it at all so they give up. Oh yea, and the same people who are complaining about this minute thing are the same people who can stay awake for hours watching movie after movie, or going store hopping but find it so difficult to stay awake for an hour or so in church.

And we are disputing a flag. Come on, get real will ya. There are better things to do with our efforts.

IMHO
LauraB

 

Dear LauraB,

All true, so very true and so very sad.

But there is a reason why we should be careful about what we say and do and rise above the pettiness of this world...

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

HankD

 

Now who's in a tizzy? Actually, I don't detest that flag, and I know many people who served under the confederacy were godly people. But Granny, I spent most of my life well south of the line, and I've seen the rallies and meetings, and they were flying the flag - all of them - the one you call the believer's banner. They also fly it in the pacific northwest over the militias and skinhead rallies and concerts, where the movement has become more and more popular. These things I have witnessed with my own eyes - not as a participant, but as an observer.

As to the original intent of the thread: I am a regenerate Christian, even on days other than Sunday...so I must try and act like it at all times. Likewise, I'm a citizen of the United States, and God has seen fit to keep our country around for awhile. For that, I thank Him, especially on July the 4th.

The flag merely represents the country I love and served 21 years in the military for. But make no mistake, I love my country - why shouldn't I thank God for it on it's birthday?

 

Okay, Pulpit, I'm ashamed for being so ugly and ask that you forgive me. I guess I'm just old and tired, but that's still no excuse. I'm sorry.

 

But its not a prayer addressed to God.

Can anyone name all four of them??

 

"Just wanted to get people's thoughts on worship services that are on or around national holidays."
''
I'm greatfull that we don't have them in my church. I'm greatfull because most Dutch displays of patriotism are strongly tied to the fans my nation's national footballteam. I don't want to see a church filled with folks dressed in orange, with the flag painted on their foreheads. Also I tend to see Christianity as an international phenomenon, making Church displays of nationalism a little weird.

"Most of the churches I've been to do the pledge to the Christian and American flag"
''
There is a Christian flag?

" sing a few patriotic songs."
''
The Dutch national anthem is a nice hymn, but on the other hand it is also a blatant political propaganda piece (not that I disagree with that particular piece of propaganda, but still).

 

Thomas Jerfferson, Benjerman Franklin, John Adams and George Washington.

 

"The "American" Flag limits us to our own country, when the Holy Bible says to teach "all" nations. I wouldn't mind seeing a Believer's Banner(Confederate Flag) in assembly."
''
The Confederate Flag is supposed to be an international symbol?

Personally I don't mind seeing a Confederate Flag in it's natural environment, but I would be less than thrilled if it became an export product.

 

We don't have any flags inside our assembly, but son'n'law does fly the Gadsden(Don't Tread On Me) alternately with the Confederate(we meet at his home.) I simply stated I wouldn't mind seeing it inside, not that it was an international symbol.

Many folks have aught against the good things in life & nitpik; which to me, this flag is good, my Bible is good, the South is good, Chevys are good, etc...

Like Pulpit was saying, he sees the Confederate flag at all those meetings, etc...but he failed to say the American flag is also there, and no one has even mentioned if this is a 'hit and run' or 'drive-by' as they do elsewhere.

 

We have the American flag and the Christian flag. We pledge alligence to both and sometimes even the Holy Bible. We are a very patriotic church. We love this great country, God's country it is.

HomeBound

hey GrannyG

 

When I lived in Vancouver, Canada, I did see the Confederate flag in a certain "alternative culture" shop. So yes, it has gone international.


mozier

 

We had a patriotic service on the 4th. First of all we praised God. All the songs we sang asked for God's blessing on our country. The pastor gave a Children's Sermon. He pointed to the American flag and asked if they knew why the stars were on it. He told them it was so Americans would look to the heavens and thank God for their country and their freedom. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic as long as it is God first.

 

Although every song we sang was patriotic our sermon message was that od David and Golieth.

Pretty fitting if you ask me.

 

Hey broHomeBound! Saws ya in the Versions earlier! God Bless!

The reason I say the "Believer's Banner" is because of Saint Andrew's Cross. Andrew was one of Jesus' disciples and eventually crucified upside down. He died a Christian martyr & became a patron saint of both Russia & Scotland. Peter the Great incorporated the Cross of St.Andrew's into his nation's national flag in 1669. I think you'll see this flag in the movie, "The Patriot".

The emigrants from Scotland carried with them their faith and religious heritage. So significant was the faith of these people that migrated to the South, that even those uneducated had a means to attest of their faith. They pledged themselves with and signed legal documents by means of an "X", Andrew's Cross. And I think folks today use the letter "X" to mean "Christ". (Xmas)

The infamous political thinker, Karl Marx, predicted, "Take away a nation's heritage and they are, more easily persuaded." So goes our glorious Christian heritage in America.

In addition to being a standard of faith, the Battle flag is also an ensign of courage, and a symbol of hope for liberty. This very banner flew atop the Berlin wall as it was being taken down.

Long story short, the first designed flag was proudly accepted by all the people of the Southern nation, but it soon proved to be fatally faulty on the field of battle, so was redesigned to our present day.

Pulpit, I accept your "olive branch", too. Deo Vindice!