Where have all the Preachers gone?

I am well familiar with all of those sermons. At the end of last year, I preached through the first 12 chapters of Acts to remind our congregation what the first century church looks like. Strangely missing from the book of Acts is the kind of preaching you are recommending.

I took a break from that series to focus on something else. I am planning on returning to Acts in two weeks at the completion of the current series.

What I see in teh book of Acts is nothing like what I see you talking about. For one thing, not one person in teh book of Acts used the KJV. ... We need to be biblical Christians and focus on biblical matters. My point is that our preaching should follow the pattern of Scripture, which is a varied pattern.

 

Pastors that pound the pulpits seldom have much to say other than give a show.

 

YOu know what they say: When your point gets weak, just shout a little louder ...

 

deleted--Baptist Only Forum

[ May 11, 2004, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

sigh............

 

Abiyah,

Yeah. I've seen the like, myself.

If a man has no point to get across, no clear direction from God, I would rather he sit down and shut up.

But if a man does have a message (one with a beginning, a middle, and an end), then by all means let's have it.

In christ,
Trotter

 

Me too.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

You can lead a horse to water but .....

 

My point exactly...

 

If you actually made a point, we might have something to discuss.

 

Abiyah, please see the pm I have sent you.

Bro. Dallas

[ May 12, 2004, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

The problem is that people consider a "called" preacher someone who goes to bible school or seminary and has met the educational aspect of being a preacher. Of course these requirements are set up by men. Just because one goes to seminary or bible school does not mean one has been called by God. Another problem is that it is taught by most that the congregation is supposed to pay the pastor's salary. Did Paul receive wages from the different churches he visited? He earned his wages by being a tentmaker. Is there an example of Jesus earning wages from his followers? Did Paul learn the gospel by attending a bible school or seminary? No.

 

HisMercy;

You are right seminary doesn’t give the man the call. But there are sure a lot of pastors who are tired and sacrifice their families due to lazy complainers who won’t work.

I met a man while I was in seminary who was going to the seminary so he could be a better Sunday School teacher. He worked for IBM at the time. He took all the same classes that a person preparing for the pastorate might take. I was encouraged that he would consider God’s work that important to be well equipped.

Many churches have lazy complaining people who they ought to be working. They expect the pastor to hold the handkerchief while they blow their nose.

Before I ever pastored a church I had led a number of people to Christ and discipled even more. By the time I was 21 I started a childen's ministry to disciple young kids. I started with one helper. eventually the thing exploded. The church gave us a budget. At first we were using our own money. We were in college and had little. But when I started pastoring I found so many in the church to be people who didn't have a clue how to disciple anyone, yet, they had ideas of grandeur. They didn't know their Bible. (Most of those in our churches today have never led one person to Christ. Do you blame the pastor for that too?)They are afraid. They don't know what to share either. But when I came along and asked them to come and do ministry with me I got all kinds of excuses. Regularly I heard the excuse, "I am too busy." All I asked is that they come with me two hours each week. when I was younger I asked my pastor if I could do that with him. I led Bible studies and discipled people. But there are those who are "too busy." When in reality they are too lazy. The world is dying and going to hell and they are "too busy." They simply don't care and don't care t learn. "It's the pastors' job."

Most people in churches work eight hours a day and then spend how much time in front of the TV?

I pastored one church where a few of the deacons said I didn't do enough evangelism. They didn't know because they weren't doing any ministry. None of those deacons had led one person to Christ. The church only grew from 90 to 220. They had big ideas but no energy to do ministry. Imagine that! Finally I asked them to tell me how much they were reading their Bible each day. Most of them admitted they were not reading it at all. I told most of them after what they told me that unless they were an example to the congregation then they should not be a deacon. I didn't need their money. I told them if money was an issue and it would help to get them to work I would take a regular job. But the fact is that the nickels and noses grew propertionately. They kept the money and put it in an investemnt which failed and the church lost almost all of its money. Fifty eight people joined by baptism during that time. Later I found out that before I came they had a regular practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to come and preach at local Christian events they sponsored. I tried reasoning with them at first but found out they actually thought he was a Christian. I was shocked. I put a stop to that immediately. After I did that, at the next deacons meeting one of the deacons stood up and pointed his finger at me saying, What are you trying to do? Stir up our community? I said, "Yes." He said that we like it just as it is. They hated those people so much by their contentment that they never gave them the gospel.

I had a couple come from Salt Lake City to give a conference on how to witness to Mormons. They were excellent. She had been a translator in the Mormon Church for 14 years. All of his family were Mormons and he had been a major leader in the Mormon Church. It was a powerful conference. It changed my life and gave me a passion unlike I had ever had. That couple had businesses in Utah and were boycotted from annual Mormon Church meeting. They lost their home, their businesses, and everything but their car and clothes. They had to start all over again. Their website is at http://www.hismin.com/

A lot of people that complain would not like it if the pastor got a regular job and told them he expected them to do ministry with him. They would no longer have any excuse to not go with him and do ministry. They think just because he is paid that he is lazy and they don’t have to do much. The money is to free up the pastor so he can do his work better not just more of what you should be doing.

Since I quit pastoring I moved to the area I live now. Within six months I started meeting with twenty people in Bible study. They wanted me to disciple them. I had three Bible studies each week. I didn't wait for the pastor to give them to me. Plus I am self employed and work about eleven hours each day. During that same time one of the pastors asked me to help him out in the men's ministry. I did along with a few others. He wanted to impact the church in discipleship. Some of those men had never discipled anyone. That pastor told us that he wanted us to start discipling someone. Within probably six months every man began discipling someone. Those of us who had discipled someone helped those who had not.

One of the men who discipled me worked a regular job during the week and met with us during the week. When he died there were 640 people at his funeral. Many of them could not come because they were missionaries and pastor living elsewhere. The church was overflowing and some had to stand outside. He was not the pastor.

Quit complaining about the pastor and do what you can to help. (You have no idea the task he has. It is a job where he can get a phone call at any time. Most of those calls are at night.) Start discipling others in the church to do ministry.

 

No, but a person who is called should endeavour to become educated. Educated persons are better equipped. Likewise, a person who is called into a certain career, say, airline pilot, should first go to airline pilot's school before getting behind the wheel fo a plane. A person who's called to be a teacher should get teaching credentials. A person who's called to be a music minister should get music training.

Paul was also financially well off. Pastors need to eat. If they're going to run the church and put in 80 hours a week, they should be compensated.

Apples and oranges. Jesus and Paul were single, too, but a lot of people insist that their pastors should be married. Jesus and Paul were not members of any specific church, but many insist that their pastors (and their wives) should be members of the church they serve. Jesus and Paul would have consumed real wine during passover meals, but many congregants don't consume wine regularly. Jesus and Paul did a lot of things that, just because they did them, don't make them a requirement in the church today.

 

I think many, though certainly not all are dealing with those who have been saved in their sins and not from their sins.

Maybe they are over at TinyTim's for that chicken dinner?

Just some of my thought on this.

Bro. Dallas

 

I do not believe every man that enters the ministry can be a preacher.I believe "preaching" is a gift from God. I remember Pastor Roy Thompson of Cleveland Baptist Church. He started with a "store front" church in lower Cleveland and before he retired, there were over 2,000 in Sunday School alone. But when Roy preached he preached THE GOSPEL and didn't care who's toes he stepped on. He didn't stand behind the Pulpit, but walked the floor of the pulpit platform, that the choir seats were on.

Then there was Bro B.R.Lakin of Akron Baptist Temple. When he preached on sin and the wrath of God, HUNDREDS would come forward with TEARS streaming on their faces crying out to the Lord.

These men were MEN OF GOD! They didn't want your consent and they cared less what you thought of them. They only cared about PREACHING THE GOSPEL and lost souls headed for hell. When is the last time you heard a preacher say out loud and with conviction, " I don't care who you are or what you've done, black, white or whatever race. Your a sinner. If you are not right with God, your on your way to a Christ less eternity! You NEED to get right with God, RIGHT NOW! Don't walk out of here without doing that. This MAY BE YOUR LAST OPPORTUNITY. Are you a backslider or need to be baptized? Then Comon, I'll greet you and we'll settle it with God, right here and now. I DON'T WANT ANYONE looking around. Every head bowed. Comon, Christ is calling. Comon."

When is the last time you heard an altar call like that? That comes from a preacher who doesn't care what people think, but what his calling really is. Think about it.

 

We had two girls saved tonight during our youth service. I preached the basics of the gospel message, straight from John 3:16. I mentioned Hell once. I made clear what "eternal life" meant. I explained to them that God showed us his love by giving up what was precious to Him.

No altar call - no sinner's prayer. I just told them that if they had never believed in Jesus that they could do so now. "Just tell God that you believe in His Son and that you want to become a follower of Christ." Everyone's eyes were closed (about 100 kids all together) and I asked those who did that to look up at me. Two girls looked up, and I got two of our adults to spend about ten minutes with them after the service to confirm their decision. It was really cool.

It was the gospel message, but I didn't stomp, didn't scream, didn't yell at them about Hell. Just told them that God loved them in spite of their sin (talked about how zits were proof that we are all sinners, which was fun!), and how Christ didn't come to condemn us, but to save us. One of the girls just moved to the US from India and came with her cousin, who is an active follower of Christ himself.

That's what can happen when we invest in the lives of others and invite them to church. The message was meant to help the kids know how to share their faith with others. God showed up tonight - how powerful for them to see that the simplest of gospel messages can be used by Him to bring people to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ!

SEC

 

1 Corinthians 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1 Timothy 5:17-18 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

It was Paul's choice not to take any "salary" from the churches, though he did take gifts from certain churches, such as the church at Philippi. Nevertheless, he did teach that it was the God-given responsibility for every church to financially support their pastor. The laborer is not only worth his hire; he is worthy of double honor (monetary value) if he be a good pastor. If a church doesn't not pay or support their pastor it shows their disrespect for the man that God has called to serve Him, and thus a disrespect for God himself.

Concerning Bible College:
The prophet Samuel started a college for the prophets in the Old Testament.
The Apostles studied in the college of Jesus. What better seminary could anyone have. Look at the reputation of their education:

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Don't misunderstand this verse. Peter and John were not unlearned and ignorant. Peter wrote two epistles, and John wrote the Gospel of John, the Book of Revelation, and three Epistles. They both had very good educations--could understand Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin (and possibly others). The phrase "unlearned and ignorant" simpy means "they haven't been to our Pharasaical seminaries." Or, to some "they aren't 'KJVO.'" You get the idea.
"They took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." These disciples stood out. They had an education that was different from the other Saduccees, scribes, lawyers, and Pharisees. Their college education stemmed from Christ Himself.

As for Paul, he studied at the feet of Gamiliel, one of the most outstanding scholars of His day. It is said by many that the Apostle Paul was one of the most educated (if not the most educated) man of his day. Did Paul go to seminary? Yes indeed. He had a much higher learning than most of his contemporaries, and above that received greater revelation straight from God. Remember, he wrote 13 epistles of the New Testament. God spoke directly to him. Peter testified in 2Pet.3, that in Paul's epistles his words were sometimes hard to understand. Paul had a good education.

In this day and age there is no excuse for ignorance. God's servants need a good education.
DHK

 

Amen, DHK!

God calls the man to preach, but an education helps him to do it well.

An education is not absolutely needed to be a preacher, as God can equip the man with His Spirit. But a good education (college, seminary, self-study) helps him to not sound ignorant, to be correct in his doctrine.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Amen Trotter.
2 Tim 2:15 and 2 Tim 3:16-17!
Tell ya what...
You fellers preach the way God tells you and I'll preach the way God tells me, and let's EVERYONE OF US pray God will lead some to repentance and salvation, huh? After all, ain't that what it's all about anyway?
Jim