NIV & New Age Movement by Al Lacey

All I am asking for is ONE shred of evidence that the NIV is a New Age bible. One verse that demonstrates it. One passge that supports it. We are 11 pages into this thread and no one had done that.

Why? And how does that question imply that I don't think the New Age movement is active?!?!

 

Askjo

Since you are fond of Bible statistics, I thought this would interest you. This came from using Wordsearch to find occurances of these words in the NT.

"Christ": NIV = 499, KJV = 522
"Jesus": NIV = 1196, KJV = 936

Totals: NIV = 1695, KJV = 1458

If our criteria is purely statistical, then the NIV is the superior version based on this. Of course, you know what they say about statistics, don't you?

 

Now that someone pointed out Bible Gateway to me
and and NIV electronic source, I did my own compare on
"Christ" and "the Christ". Recall the variation may
be the search engine, might be the different version
of the KJV, might be the different edition of the NIV.

"Christ" in the NIV N.T. - 536
"Christ" in the KJV1769 N.T. - 538

Going KJV1769 to NIV is a loss of 2 occurances of "Christ"
not the 42 claimed earlier.

"The Christ" in the NIV N.T. - 53
"The Christ" in the KJV N.T. - 19
So going from the KJV to the NIV there is an additional
use of "the Christ".

The new version in 2003: Holman Christian Standard
Bible (HCSB) seems to have dropped "Christ" in favor
of "Messiah".

Michael52: //"Christ": NIV = 499, KJV = 522//

Still no evidence that the changes
in the NIV promote New Age Teachings.
Maybe they promote Satanism and/or Paganism?

 

Robycop3: "Declare Him, I believe the NIV/New Age garbage
came from Riplinger, and that Michelle picked
it up from someone who read Riplinger's garbage, ... "

Sadly, that is the way it works.
However, for it to work one must ignore
God's written word.

Acts 17:11 (KJV1769) concerning
those in the town of Berea:
"And these were more noble than those in
Thessolonica, in that they received the
word with all readiness of mind
AND SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY,
whether those things were so."

By contrast, Michelle on 07 June 2004:
"I would never touch the NIV nor would I
recommend it to anyone.".

Not knowing the true Written WOrd of God in
the New International Version (NIV), and being
exposed to the Riplinger lies -- a beautiful
setup for MAJOR ERROR.
I checked out Riplinger and her arguments against
the NIV. Then I noticed that she really didn't
check out the other Bible versions, so much as
she condemned them because some of them were like
the NIV.

Errors in the new Riplinger book are pointed out here:

In Awe of thy Word

You see, Riplinger's venom only works if you don't bother to
check her claims in the NIV (and other Holy Biblies that
she disses). Riplinger cannot have her words
survive against one who uses God's written word
in the form of the NIV Holy Bible.

 

Do you deny that New Age goes anywhere? </font>[/QUOTE]The New Age is connected only by its source, Satan. He has simply repackaged some of his same old tricks that have worked down through the centuries. He knows human vanity. He knows what works to deceive people away from Christ.

Therefore, MV's have nothing more to do with the New Age than the KJV. New Agers twist scripture no matter what version they might try to employ. The bottom line is that Satan has no interest in efforts that put God's Word faithfully into a form that people can read and understand and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Millions have been saved and sanctified using MV's Askjo... does that sound like it plays into Satan's plans? Does that sound like people are being led wholesale into the New Age movement? Only the truly blind would think so.

 

Ed

That's a real difference between your's and my search results. One wouldn't think there should be that much difference between search algorithms or version "editions".

After thinking about it, I realized that my search actually found the number of verses containg the words rather than just occurrences of the words. I mis-stated, my bad! - Hope that's not a "new-age" expression.

 

The NIV does not remotely promote even one shred of New Age thinking, worldview, or teaching. The NIV teaches the same Christian truths that New Agers reject: Jesus is the unique Son of God; salvation through Jesus alone; God's plan of redemption; sin is abhorrent to God; we are sinners; Jesus is physically coming back; God is personal and without sin. None of these truths are accepted in the New Age.

 

I forgot these:
God's judgment on sin
Jesus is coming back to judge
The lost will be eternally separated from God

These are teachings that the New Age (which is an umbrella term for many beliefs) wholeheartedly rejects.

 

If you want to see what a New Age "Bible" is like, check out The Aquarian Gospel, which has Jesus learning esoteric doctrines from the East. Or check out A Course In Miracles, which discusses Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit with a complete New Age spin. This book was channeled by an atheist psychiatrist and influenced Marianne Willamson's bestseller, A Return to Love.

A Course in Miracles is one of the most influential New Age books around though it is not read as much now. I did not do the "Course" as many others I knew, because it was too "Christian" for me (from my perspective as an unbeliever at the time).

 

Marcia,

While I was not as intimate with the New Age, I was "involved" in some something similar. And it kills me when someone starts waving a battle standard when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Personally, I do not use the NIV a lot, as I prefer a more literal translation. But I do use the NIV in my studies. I have found it to be clear and very readable. But, I have not found anything even remotely resembling anything "New Age" between its covers.

You know, it is sad when people will read a bunch of garbage (Ripplinger, Ruckman, et al) and believe every word without checking for themselves. I used to be guilty of this myself, until some information I was using "blindly" turned out to be false. So, now I try to check up on everything I read (unless it comes from a trusted author, but I will still spot check).

It is even sadder that people would condemn something that they have never even read. Not that one would have to read porn to reject it, but we are talking about the word of God! I mean, really!

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Don't they know that
their ignorance ("absolutely no idea what
they are talking about") shows?

SIGH!

Praise Jesus

 

You wanted comparisons and "PROOF" here you are:

NIV

Matthew 1:17
Thus there were fourteen generations all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to
*THE CHRIST*. (Note: * ALL CAPS * my emphasis to show you)

KJB

Matthew 1:17
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto *CHRIST* are fourteen generations.

NIV

Matthew 2:4
When he had called together all the people's cheif priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where *THE CHRIST* was to be born.

KJB

Matthew 2:4
And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where *CHRIST* should be born.

NIV

Matthew 22:42
What do you think about *THE CHRIST*? Whose son is he? "The son of David" they replied.

KJB

Matthew 22:42
Saying, What think ye of *CHRIST*? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

NIV

Matthew 23:10
Nor are you to be called *'TEACHER'*, for you have one *TEACHER*, *THE CHRIST*.

KJB

Matthew 23:10
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even *CHRIST*.

NIV

Matthew 24:5
For many will come in my name, claiming 'I am *THE CHRIST*'

KJB

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am *CHRIST*; and shall deceive many.

NIV

Matthew 24:23
at that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is *THE CHRIST*!',or 'There he is!' do not believe it.

KJB

Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is *CHRIST*, or there; believe it not.

NIV

Mark 12:35
While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, "How is it that the teachers of the law say that *THE CHRIST* is the son of David?

KJB

Mark 12:35
And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that *CHRIST* is the Son of David?

NIV

Mark 13:21
At that time, if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is *THE CHRIST*' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it.

KJB

Mark 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is *CHRIST*; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

NIV

Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was *THE CHRIST*.

KJB

Luke 4:41
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art *CHRIST* the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was *CHRIST*.
(note: the NIV did not only add the word "the" unnecessarily to the text, but botched up this entire verse! and separating Christ in this passage from being the Son of God in the present tense form, literally speaking of Jesus)

NIV

Luke 20:41
Then Jesus said to them, "How is it that they say *THE CHRIST* is the Son of David?(note that this could be referring to someone other than Jesus the way they have translated this which misses one of the understandings we recieve from this verse about and witnessing about who Jesus is)

KJB

Luke 20:41
And he said unto them, How say they that *CHRIST* is David's son? (note the present tense and acknowledgement specifically of Jesus himself speaking of himself)

NIV

Luke 23:35
The people stood watching, and the rulers even sheered at him. They said, He saved others; let him save himself if he is *THE CHRIST* of God, the *CHOSEN ONE*. (they totally botched this one up also, which matches to New Age termonology)

KJB

Luke 23:35
And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be *CHRIST*, *THE CHOSEN OF GOD*.

NIV

Luke 23:39
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you *THE CHRIST*? Save yourself and us!"

KJB

Luke 23:39
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be *CHRIST*, save thyself and us. (KJB accurately depicts the doubting criminal, as the NIV makes this criminal declare he knows which is not the truth as this criminal was mocking him)

NIV

Luke 24:26
Did not *THE CHRIST* have to suffer these things and then enter his glory? (Jesus or the self christ as NA thinks?)

KJB

Luke 24:26
Ought not *CHRIST* to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

NIV

Luke 24:46
He told them, "This is what is written: *THE CHRIST* will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, (they botched this verse up to because Jesus did not in this verse quote what was written verbatum, but summed it all up. This version makes it seem as though Jesus actually quoted verbatum from what was written, to which he did not and therefore THE CHRIST does not belong there because he is speaking in present tense about HIMSELF.)

KJB

Luke 24:46
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved *CHRIST* to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (check the referrences for this verse to see for yourself that this is translated properly and the NIV is not)

NIV

John 7:26
Here he is, speaking publicly, and they are not saying a word to him: Have the authorities really concluded that he is *THE CHRIST*?

KJB

John 7:26
But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very *CHRIST*? (notice the word "very" instead of "the")

NIV

John 7:27
But we know where this man is from; when *THE CHRIST* comes, no one will know where he is from."
(This doesn't allude to the real meaning of the question, nor show forth their confusion as to "how" Jesus is Christ and actually leads the reader to believe that Jesus couldn't be Christ because they know where he is from - I smell subtle deception!)

KJB

John 7:27
Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when *CHRIST* cometh, no man knoweth whence he is. (this is showing their statement of confusion -the NIV does not)

NIV

John 7:31
Still, many in the crowd put their faith in him. They said, "When *THE CHRIST* comes, will he do more miraculous *signs* than this man? (separates again, Jesus being presently Christ)

KJB

John 7:31
And many of the people believed on him, and said, When *CHRIST* cometh, will he do more *miracles* than these which this man hath done?

NIV

John 12:34
The crowd spoke up, "We have heard from the law that *THE CHRIST* will remain forever, so how can you say, 'The Son of Man must be lifted up'? Who is this Son of Man?

KJB

John 12:34
The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that *CHRIST* abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

NIV

Acts 2:31
Seeing what was ahead, he spake of the resurrection of *THE CHRIST*, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay
(the Christ in NA is spiritual)

KJB

Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of *CHRIST*, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

NIV

Acts 3:20
and he may send *THE CHRIST*, who has been appointed for you - even Jesus. (Dangerously close to New Age belief, as they believe there are many "christs" (each can have "the christ" in you) but awaiting the "chosen one" or "the Christ")

KJB

Acts 3:20
And he shall send *JESUS CHRIST*, which before was preached unto you: (totally different than what the NIV presents)

NIV

Acts 4:26
The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the Lord and against his *ANNOINTED ONE*. (This is very New Age terminology, regardless of the footnote they give)

KJB

Acts 4:26
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the *LORD*, and against *HIS CHRIST*.

NIV

Acts 5:42
Day after Day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is *THE CHRIST*. (New Age ideology encouraged again with this wording)

KJB

Acts 5:42
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach *JESUS CHRIST*.

NIV

Acts 8:5
Phillip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed *THE CHRIST* there.

KJB

Acts 8:5
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached *CHRIST* unto them.

NIV

Acts 17:3
explaining and proving that *THE CHRIST* had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is *THE CHRIST*," he said.

KJB

Acts 17:3
Opening and alleging, that *CHRIST* must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is *CHRIST*.

NIV

Acts 18:5
When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was *THE CHRIST*.

Acts 18:5
And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was *pressed in the spirit*, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was *CHRIST*. (* sidenote: notice that Paul was "pressed in the spirit" in God's words, but in the NIV no mention of the spirit at all! one can be devoted without the spirit)

NIV

Acts 18:28
For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was *THE CHRIST*.

KJB

Acts 18:28
For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was *CHRIST*.

NIV

Acts 26:23
that *THE CHRIST* would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would *proclaim light* to his own people and to the gentiles."
(Light is another New Age term associated with the term "the christ")

KJB

Acts 26:23
That *CHRIST* should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should *shew light* unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

NIV

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing *THE MESSAGE*, AND *THE MESSAGE* is heard through the word of *CHRIST*. (The message is also NAT, and specifically speaking about the christ.)

KJB

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the *THE WORD OF GOD*.

NIV

Romans 16:18
For such people are not serving our *LORD CHRIST*,
but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they decieve the minds of naive people. (if this is not a statement by/of the translators(whether consciously or not) of this version themselves, I don't know what is! Also - The NAT LORD is also used for their christ - NOTICE the name of Jesus is missing)

KJB

Romans 16:18
For they that are such serve not our *LORD JESUS CHRIST*, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. (thats the NIV and most all the mv's this verse can be speaking of)

NIV

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of *CHRIST*. (Now it is only Christ and falls in line also with NA thinking - they recieve light and knowledge as they are christ and god)

KJB

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of *JESUS CHRIST*.

NIV

2 Corinthians 5:18
All *this* is from God, who reconciled us to himself through *CHRIST* and gave us the ministry of reconciliation

KJB

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all *things* are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by *JESUS CHRIST*, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

NIV

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself *in CHRIST*, not counting mens sins against them. And he has committed to us the *MESSAGE* of reconciliation. (New Agers don't believe in sin but believe they can attain to be "in" the christ state)

KJB

2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that *GOD WAS IN CHRIST*, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the *WORD* of reconciliation.

NIV

Ephesians 1:9
And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in *CHRIST*. (New Age term and ideology - schools of mystery cults)

KJB

Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in *HIMSELF*: (this verse is speaking of the mystery of God, and it is HIMSELF(God Almighty as the trinitarian whole) that hath purposed it, not just the office term of Christ, but that God Almighty himself is Christ.)

NIV

Ephesians 1:10
to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment - to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, *EVEN CHRIST*. (yeah, one world religion under antichrist)

KJB

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times *HE* might gather together in one all things in *CHRIST*, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; *EVEN IN HIM*:

NIV

Ephesians 1:13
And you were also included *IN CHRIST* when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were *MARKED IN HIM* with a *SEAL*, the promised Holy Spirit, (this is new age, and I would like to point your attention to Rev. 13:16 regarding the "mark of the beast". A mark is a stamp into the flesh)

KJB

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also *TRUSTED*, after that ye *heard the word of truth*, the gospel of your salvation: *IN WHOM ALSO AFTER THAT* ye *BELIEVED*, ye were *SEALED* with that *HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE*,

NIV

Ephesians 5:21
Submitt to one another out of reverence for *CHRIST*.

KJB

Ephesians 5:21
Submitting yourselves one to another in the *FEAR OF GOD*.

NIV

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart *CHRIST AS LORD*. Always be prepared to give and answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. (New Age, since they think themselves as gods/lords)

KJB

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the *LORD GOD* in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

This version has many New Age terminologies of the language of this day. There was absolutely NO REASON TO CHANGE THIS TO "THE CHRIST" OR BE MORE SPECIFIC in these passages as indicated and shown in the KJB. This leads me to believe this was subtily done by the translators, whether purposely or not and also evidences the differences of the underlying texts. This will only help lead many christians into ecumenical beliefs and unions with the New Age, hence and sadly we already witness this happening. You still doubt it?

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

There was absolutely NO REASON TO CHANGE THIS TO "THE CHRIST"

The Greek text of all of your spoof-texts that I sampled (I didn't waste my time on the whole set) had an article in front of christos.

The Christ: Good enough for Paul, good enough for me!

 

Yes I still doubt - how does "The Christ" as opposed to Christ support the New Age movement. If anything is strengthens the fact that Jesus is THE one and only Christ - there is NTHER.

That being said - at least now I can understand where you are coming from and for that I am appreciative.

 

--------------------------------------------------
The Greek text of all of your spoof-texts that I sampled (I didn't waste my time on the whole set) had an article in front of christos.

The Christ: Good enough for Paul, good enough for me!
--------------------------------------------------

Then you are clearly relying upon the WRONG GREEK TEXT.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

--------------------------------------------------
Yes I still doubt - how does "The Christ" as opposed to Christ support the New Age movement. If anything is strengthens the fact that Jesus is THE one and only Christ - there is NTHER.

That being said - at least now I can understand where you are coming from and for that I am appreciative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, I never said it supports it 100%, but it is deceitful and misleading in a subtle way and can be a tool used because of this. I recommend to you, that you read some of the New Age, gnostic and mystery religion material in order to understand better their beliefs, and how it is infiltrating christian churches and how it pars with what I have shown you. This is only one of the many problems with the NIV that is dangerous.

You claim "the Christ" only strengthens Jesus Christ as the one and only Christ. Please read more closely the comparisons I gave to you, and you will see in reality and truth how it does not. The pure words of God do. Also remember, you may understand it, but many new christians, or unbelievers may not and could be misled, ecspecially if they are not familiar with or use/read/study the KJB.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Okay rsr,

Now compare those verses with the ones from the NIV to be fair. I think you will notice a big difference in how the term "the Christ" is used in each, and when compared to New Age beliefs and terminology, as this was the topic and issue being discussed. Are you familiar with their beliefs? If it were not also for the fact, that this same version substitutes "Lucifer" with "morning star", I might not find it so dangerous in this way. However, morning star is the term used for Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour, and does not belong where Lucifer belongs, who is Satan in Isaiah 14.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle