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What is the necessity of this rule?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Filmproducer, Oct 23, 2005.

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  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The refusal to admit person of different faiths is in regards to the requirement to adhere to scriptural doctrines and possibly the school's mission statement in regards to religious beliefs.

    The issue of racial separation is not a matter of scriptural doctrine, belief, or mission.
     
    #41 Johnv, Oct 27, 2005
  2. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    paidagogos,

    By not biblical I mean simply that. It is not prohibited in the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that specifically prohibits interracial marriage, nor would there be, considering race, as defined today, is a modern evolutionary term.

    Also, who said I refuse to accept Muslims or JW's? I do not believe in discrimination of any kind, and I have stated that before. It is not discrimination if I state my personal faith. It is not discrimination if I disagree with those of other faiths and religion, but still respect the fact that it is their faith. To do otherwise would be damaging to my Christian testimony, and would certainly never lead anyone closer to finding the Lord, which is my ultimate goal as a Christian.

    See...

    Proverbs 24:23-These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.

    Proverbs 28:21- To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress

    Colossians 3:25-But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done; and there is no respect of persons.

    All these verses, plus all the others in terms of "respect of persons", show me the same thing. We are ALL sinners. For this reason alone, discrimination is wrong. I have no right to discriminate against anyone, because I am just as much of a sinner. Stating what I believe to be right is not discrimination, it is opinion. Discrimination places one person, or a group of people, over another, and this is wrong. Forbidding interracial dating is in fact implying that interracial marriages are wrong, and that is discrimination.

    As far as not letting JW's or Muslims into the school, that is not discrimination. It is a standard for admission, based on the merit of the applicant. Being that it is a religious institution, they are specifically looking for applicants who fulfill this role. This is the same as a state university rejecting an applicant who scored extremely low on the SAT or ACT, and who had a D average in high school. Racial discrimination, as applied today, does not look at the merit of the person, only the color of the skin. There is a difference. With that being said, outside of admission practices for private institutions, I do not believe religious discrimination is right or that it should be tolerated.
     
    #42 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Tells you a lot about the convictions of those who run the school and set policy.
     
    #43 gb93433, Oct 27, 2005
  4. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    There should be no problem then, since we are all part of the HUMAN race. [​IMG]
     
    #44 Paul33, Oct 27, 2005
  5. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "For this reason alone, discrimination is wrong. I have no right to discriminate against anyone, because I am just as much of a sinner."-----------------------------------------------------------

    Yet you have no problem with "black" student unions, just because it is an implyed discriminiation and not an enforced one. :rolleyes:
     
    #45 Bunyon, Oct 27, 2005
  6. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    My cousin who is half Asian and half white went to one of these weird Christian schools (don't ask me why). Their policy was that she had to decide every semester which race she wanted to date that semester. Completely daft.
     
    #46 Petrel, Oct 27, 2005
  7. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    First of all, the thread is not about "Black Student Unions". Secondly, I believe I very clearly pointed out my reasons why a BSU is not discriminatory in the other thread. The main reason being that white people are not prohibited from joining. For anyone else who would like to view my responses to this issue, here is the link- BSU related thread

    I see no need to further address this issue here.
     
    #47 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  8. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    My cousin who is half Asian and half white went to one of these weird Christian schools (don't ask me why). Their policy was that she had to decide every semester which race she wanted to date that semester. Completely daft.

    I'm sorry, but that is absolutely ludicrous. That is like saying to a biracial person they cannot acknowledge a part of themselves every semester. I still do not see how forbidding interracial dating logically promotes order and efficiency. With so many biracial people today I would think it would cloud the matter even more and lead to inefficiency.
     
    #48 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  9. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "I still do not see how forbidding interracial dating logically promotes order and efficiency."

    That's because it does not promote order and efficiency. It might have back in the day when iterracial dating was so rare the parent's might march on the school. But today it is not serving any ligitamate good, and it is not biblical.
     
    #49 Bunyon, Oct 27, 2005
  10. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "I see no need to further address this issue here."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you are going to be a champian of non-discrimination and an apologist for Jackson etc. Then your views on such things will be considered when discussing related matters, that is just the way it is. I am not sure how you would think that it is not related. Consistancy matters.
     
    #50 Bunyon, Oct 27, 2005
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    My first year was at a community college (before I transferred to a private bible college), and back then, the registration form had a "race" box. Being part white/part asian myself, I always declared I was of the "decline to state" race. California did away with race on college admissions many years ago.
     
    #51 Johnv, Oct 27, 2005
  12. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    If you are going to be a champian of non-discrimination and an apologist for Jackson etc. Then your views on such things will be considered when discussing related matters, that is just the way it is. I am not sure how you would think that it is not related. Consistancy matters.

    For the final time, I do not support discrimination in any way. I don't care who is doing the discriminating, it is still wrong. I would hardly call myself an apologist for Jackson. I understand why he is supported by African Americans. There is a difference. As for the Rainbow/Push Coalition, it does have and/or support many beneficial programs for the poor. I will not discount them only because Jackson started the RPC. I would hardly call this an inconsistent standpoint. Once again I believe I made my viewpoint clearly understood in the other thread. I do not support discrimination of anyone, by anyone, for any reason. This is seriously off topic, however, and not relevant to the issue at hand, imo.
     
    #52 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  13. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "I do not support discrimination of anyone, by anyone, for any reason."--------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You don't support it as you difine it. But I would call building a student union using state funds that says "black" student union, is a form of discrimination. It is a step backwards and comes from the same spirit as the discrimination you oppose. I think this is an inconsisitancy that matters. I hope you will one day oppose such instances of reverse discrimination also. I know you would not want to carry it to its logical conclusion, to set up white, Asian, Indian, South Pacific Islander, etc etc etc student unions also. You start a Thread on white christian universities discriminating against interacial couples and you think your view on "black" student unions can't be considered when considering your view on discrimination on campus. I have only seen you raise issue with discrimination agains blacks, but never agains whites, so I question your direction on these matters.

    [ October 27, 2005, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Bunyon ]
     
    #53 Bunyon, Oct 27, 2005
  14. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Bunyon,

    Interracial does not mean only black and white. Interracial could mean Asian and White, Black and Asian, White and Native American, Arab and Pacific Islander, etc., etc. As far as only raising issues only with discrimination against blacks, I have no idea what you are talking about. This thread applies to all interracial couples, for it to only raise issue with discrimination against blacks it would have to apply to an all black couple. I really do not see your logic here.

    I did not say that my previous statements could not be considered. I explained why it was not discrimination, and gave the link where it is explained in greater detail. Once again, we must view discrimination for what it is. IF a group does not PROHIBIT membership then they do not practice discrimination. Let me state one more time, I would not have a problem with any type of student union. I view groups and clubs on college campuses as a form of interest group. Those who are interested join, point blank. I DO NOT SUPPORT DISCRIMINATION OF ANYONE, BY ANYONE, FOR ANY REASON.
     
    #54 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  15. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    I am not sure how you can't consider the state building a student union and designating it for only one race to not be discriminatory. What I was saying above is you are always attacking things you consider prejudicial to blacks in other threads, but you refuse to see how the state building buildings designated for a single race as a prejudicial thing. As far as clubs. That is a weak argument. These clubs are started, run, maintained, and mostly funded by students. Whereas a student union is owned, operated, and funded by the state. Big difference. I don't think your thinking is consistant. I don't think you are equally conserned about prejudice when it is excludes whites and other races, no matter how big the capital letters you use to say you do care equally.
     
    #55 Bunyon, Oct 27, 2005
  16. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Bunyon,

    I am not sure what state campus you are talking about, but here is a link to the resources UK offers to ALL groups or organizations on campus. In addition, I am providing a section of the UKBSU 2005 governing constitution, in regard to financing. Hopefully you will review these items so that we may get back on topic, because the one really has nothing to do with the other, and your claims do not seem to hold weight. I have never seen a student union owned, operated, nor funded by the state.

    UKBSU 2005 Constitution

    SECTION I:
    Dues
    A. No dues are required.
    SECTION II:
    Fund-Raising
    A. The Executive Board may institute such special fund-raising affairs or projects
    as it deems fit, and may charge, or waive, participation fees or admission fees to members, probationary members, or non-members.
    SECTION III:
    Organization Account
    A. A University organizational account must be maintained by the Treasurer in the name of the organization. Withdrawals shall be made only for supplies or for projects approved by the Executive Board. The treasurer will be held
    responsible for balancing the accounts.
    B. A checking account may be maintained with the stipulation that both the President and the Treasurer sign checks.

    Link to UK's Student Organization Center's Resources-http://www.uky.edu/StudentActivities/StudentOrgs/resources.html
     
    #56 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  17. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    I don't think you are equally conserned about prejudice when it is excludes whites and other races, no matter how big the capital letters you use to say you do care equally.

    I'm not really sure why you are making this claim against my character or what it has to do with the topic of this thread. I may be informed with the issues facing African Americans, because it indirectly affects my family, but that does not negate the fact that I disapprove of discrimination of everyone. I happen to believe that prejudicial behavior and discrimination can affect Christian testimony, therefore I believe it is wrong. The purpose of this thread was to gain knowledge and perspective on a supposed behavior of some Christian colleges and universities. I take pride in the fact that I am a Christian, and anything that might befoul Christianity, imo, is disturbing, and something to be thoroughly examined.
     
    #57 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  18. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    My first year was at a community college (before I transferred to a private bible college), and back then, the registration form had a "race" box. Being part white/part asian myself, I always declared I was of the "decline to state" race. California did away with race on college admissions many years ago. </font>[/QUOTE]That brings up an interesting point Johnv. Do Christian colleges and universities still use race on college admissions? If they do there is nothing wrong with that. I wonder, though, how the interracial dating situation would be handled if someone, especially biracial, declined to state their race? A race would probably have to be stated, if not I guess it would be based on looks... hmmm
     
    #58 Filmproducer, Oct 27, 2005
  19. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    Hey, I am on your side when it comes to rules forbidding interacial dating, but the Black student union thing is a problem for the reasons I have stated. I don't know about the UK, and I never went to a state school, but I remember when the folks at UNC were fighting for the "black" student union, and the school reluctantly gave its approval. Are you saying he bulding is not owned by the university?

    And you know I am scrutinizing your words and assertions, why would that be an attack on your Character. I did not say you were using a double standard for any sinister reason. So I don't see it as a reflection on your charater. I have children two, and I hope they will step into a world of equality, not a world of double standards and elitiest groups on campus. It is unfortunant that you don't apply the same standards to both sides of the coin. I know you say you do, but I don't see it.

    "Do Christian colleges and universities still use race on college admissions? If they do there is nothing wrong with that"-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't think you would be saying that if it was preferntial treatment to whites that resulted form asking the race of an applicant.

    You made an issue out of a few christian colleges haveing a rule about dating interaccially, so it is fair to see where you realy stand when it comes to discrimination on campus, or how equally you apply the scrutiny. I mean is it true equality you want, or some Shaprtonion version of equality.
     
    #59 Bunyon, Oct 27, 2005
  20. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    FP, I tried to look up info on Student Unions on state campuses. On some sites it seemed that the union was run by the students alone, and on others it seemed to be both state and students. 3 facultie members are appointed by the School at the university or Oregan. So I'll just say this. To the degree that a student union is funded and operated independant of the state school, it is less of a pressing issue, but to the degree that the school is involved in governance and funding it is a more pressing issue.

    But the issue is really this. I know the folks on your side philisophicaly and politically would have had a cow if anyone tried to start a "white" student union, no matter how it is funded and governed. But a different standard is applied when it comes to black prejudice, non-inclusivness, or elitism. If we are going to move forward, we must have fair and equal approches to all non-inclusivness and prejudice. I don't think you do. And remember, I did not scrutinize you first. You scrutinized me because I was dissappointed in the racial rethoric of the NO catastrophy and you challanged me on my views. So I am not sure why you want to yell foul when I scurtinize you and challange your veiw or the objectivity of you poisition. We are talking about racisim on campus, so this is very much a legitimate line of questioning.

    But anyway, I am going on vacation, so you will get a break. I am disappointed that you did not update me on your movie when I asked. Although I question where you are comming from and whether or not you are "fair and balanced" in your approach, I am really interested in your Movie. Take care.
     
    #60 Bunyon, Oct 28, 2005
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