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Old Survey Concerning Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Paul1611, May 15, 2006.

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  1. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Whether it was the chicken or the egg, Toy's spiritual demise was undoubtedly related to his decision to flee from orthodoxy. I have met some other folks who have done the same thing. It is unbelievably sad to see the shape some folks' lives get in when this happens :(
     
    #21 TomVols, May 26, 2006
  2. bobbyd

    bobbyd New Member

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    I began studying at Southern in 1995, just a couple of years after Dr. Mohler's adminstration came in...and my faith in God and His word was only strenghthened during my time there.

    I did study under some of the more "liberal" profs during my first couple of years, but still learned a lot from them and even gleaned much from their wisdom.
     
    #22 bobbyd, May 30, 2006
  3. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    It was surveys of this vintage that gave some folks outside the SBC a jaundiced view of the organization.
     
    #23 Squire Robertsson, May 30, 2006
  4. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I think that's sad, especially when there were times the information people used to attack the SBC was not credible. I have lost much respect for many non-SBC folks because they continue to use such information even after it has been proven to be false.
     
    #24 TomVols, May 31, 2006
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I understand the survey to be accurate for its day. That it no longer reflects the current condition of SBTS is entirely another question. If it was accurate at the time, many who came out of the NBC and CBA took it at face value and acted accordingly.
     
    #25 Squire Robertsson, May 31, 2006
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Of course, there are quite a few people who don't think the "results" portrayed by the survey were accurate even at the time.
     
    #26 Baptist Believer, Jun 2, 2006
  7. Speedpass

    Speedpass Active Member
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    Also,wasn't Crawford Toy broken-hearted because a foreign missionary named Lottie Moon broke off her engagement to him?
     
    #27 Speedpass, Jun 11, 2006
  8. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    self

    The data from this survey is cited by Judge Pressler in his book A Hill on Which to Die, and is one of the reasons that he worked so hard to help bring about the conservative resurgence in the SBC.

    I was a student at Southeastern College at Wake Forest under Dr. Patterson's leadership, and have been in seminary here at SEBTS under both Dr. Patterson and Dr. Akin. In both schools (they share the same campus) my faith has been strengthened. The difference between my education experience and those of the old SBTS survey is the fact that the Theologically Liberal Professors that sought to discredit the inerrant Word of God no longer teach at the SBC seminaries (most have moved on to the more liberal minded schools at places like the Divinity School at Wake Forest University, Richmond Theological Seminary, etc.) :praise:
     
    #28 Bible-boy, Jun 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2006
  9. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    The survey is part of a published thesis and at least one copy of it is located in the library at SBTS. I don't know if you could request it via an inter-library loan program?
     
    #29 Bible-boy, Jun 16, 2006
  10. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Question/

    Bible Boy et al,

    Why are we continuing to bash The Southern Baptist Seminary for this thesis?

    What good can come of out present critique?

    Are the IBFers in a time warp b/c they hold the SBC libel for what was done/taught @ Southern 30 years ago?

    What differences does in make now anyway; "there is a king who arose that knows not Joseph?"

    Amen or "oh me?"

    Somebody please advise me on this?!!!!!!

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #30 Rhetorician, Jun 16, 2006
  11. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    When life settles down a bit* I'm going to check into getting a copy.

    * I just moved and I'm still renovating the house we've moved into... actually, our stuff is here (in many, many boxes), but I still have to get everything installed in the kitchen and finish the closets before I can relax a bit.
     
    #31 Baptist Believer, Jun 16, 2006
  12. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Hey Rhet,

    I'm not bashing SBTS. I was just responding to the OP and to Baptist Believer's comments regarding the survey data. It is historical fact that back in the day some SBC seminary professors were theologically liberal and their teaching had an effect on their students. The survey data proves that point. However, when the rank and file Southern Baptists got wind of the things that some professors were teaching in our seminaries a grassroots movement (the conservative resurgence) rose up in favor of sound biblical inerrancy being taught at all SBC seminaries. The changes that occurred in our seminaries because of the conservative resurgence resulted in the theologically liberal professors leaving SBC seminaries and going to other non-SBC schools that favor their particular views. :praise:
     
    #32 Bible-boy, Jun 16, 2006
  13. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    BB,

    I am an old, 55, "Southern Baptist Hand!" I sat in the Tower Grove BC in St. Louis and heard Paige Patterson call the troops to battle the morning of the Pastor's Conf. in 1980 when the house was full.

    "I have in my hot little hand" (not literally but in my records somewhere?) a copy of the thesis.

    I read everything as a layman in the late 70s early 80s about the controversy, all of the tabloid types newspapers.

    I attended Mid America seminary b/c it was set up as a reaction to the liberalism. I got my first theological degree from there. I have never left Memphis so have lived in the shadow of Adrian Rogers/Bellvue BC and have heard him preach many many times at the seminary, in person, and on the TV.

    I went on to earn my MDiv from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in 1995. I was in the meeting when Dr. Roy Honeycutt was more or less forced out or into retirement and Al Mohler was called to be the new president.

    I have the credentials both educationally and experientially to know all of the ins and outs of the controversy.

    I say all that to ask this: What is the point in "flogging a dead horse?"

    We conservatives won. All of the agencies and seminaries have turned over and have been turned over throughout.

    What is the point in discussing old news?

    To me there are many more issues that must be discussed like:

    Will we be a confessional people and will that confession hold us together?

    Or;
    Will we be bound by the "holy cow" (as Adrian Rogers called it) of the Co-Operative Program?

    Will there be a new resurgence of Landmark tendencies or doctrine that seems to rearing its head in the IMB?

    Or;
    Will all of our missionaries be micro-managed for each thing thought, taught, and/or practiced?

    And;
    Will the missionaries practices in the field continue to be micro-managed from Richmond.

    Will the young pastors continue to be disenfranchised and not given a seat at the table of leadership?

    Or,
    Will they continue not to have a voice and be heard by the new "king makers? (i.e., those put in power/kept in power since the resurgence?)"

    Will the doctrines of grace confessionalists be the next ones "who have to go?"

    Or,
    Will there be a place for those who believe in the historic Baptist doctrines also be disenfranchised?

    My greater point here is that there is much more to talk about than a thesis that is decades old that should have lost its allure long ago.

    New opinions welcome!:thumbs:

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #33 Rhetorician, Jun 17, 2006
  14. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Hey Rhet,

    I fully agree with you. There are plenty of other more pressing things to discuss. Like I said I was just responding to the OP and making it clear that the professors that brought about the results reflected in the old survey are no longer teaching at SBC seminaries. Thus, it would be a mistake to expect to find similar data coming out of any SBC seminary today. I'm not bashing SBTS in any way, shape, or form.:saint:
     
    #34 Bible-boy, Jun 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2006
  15. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Paul,

    There might be a significantly different interpretation of the data: people of weaker faith might be attracted to higher education.
     
    #35 El_Guero, Jun 20, 2006
  16. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    It matters a lot. The survey shows what happens to the faith of believers when they enter seminaries led by those who don't believe in inerrancy and orthodoxy.

    We rejoice at what has taken place at SBTS. This reformation is also a sign of what takes place when the inerrant Word of God is preached and orthodoxy is restored.

    So does it matter, what happened at SBTS in the 70s and now in this century? Absolutely! What an amazing example to the rest of the church to guard sound doctrine!
     
    #36 Paul33, Jun 26, 2006
  17. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Well said brother. Amen!
     
    #37 Bible-boy, Jun 26, 2006
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