Tithing

BigCzarDaddy....just for the record..I'm not a "tither"anymore...go back and re-read my post.My "take" on tithing is that it is NOT for the New Testament church and is NOT taught as such anywhere in the Bible as pertaining to believers in the dispensation of "GRACE" that we live in today.Furthermore,although I am a GIVING memeber of a local SBC church,IF we were to follow the strict New Testament "model" of what a local church REALLY is we'd all be meeting in much smaller more intimate groups of Bible believers in private homes(more than likely)and all GIVING would be by FAITH...not the compulsory tithing we see forced on believers in the large(or small)institutional,denominational organizations that are so prevalent today.I happen to personally believe that as we are steadily seeing the freedoms we enjoy in this country being "whittled" away we will see christians in this country begin returning to this pattern as religious freedom continues to erode.This is what we see happening in countries like China and India and many Islamic countries as the "state" steps in and begins to "sanction" so-called official churches.The real church goes underground.I don't want to get too far off topic but in the early NT church there was NO TITHING.They sold all their goods and GAVE to each others necessities and supported the furtherance of the spread of the Gospel.As the endtimes accelerate I believe we are heading back in that direction...out of necessity.Right now...in most denominational churches all we are seeing is the distant "cloning" of ideas that begin with the catholic church and have been copied in broad form by most other denominations as "tradition".Tithing is and was one of those dead traditions.The church of the Lord Jesus Christ must operate on FAITH to survive....and it WILL survive...even if only in the form of a faithful REMNANT.I intend,by the grace of God to be a part of that remnant.God Bless You.Be faithful....and don't go down the denominational "tube" of dead tradition.Sooner or later all these big denominational church "plants" we have erected these days will be either converted to bars and brothels or filled with the deluded believers of the anti-christ after the true believers,the bride of Christ have been raptured out of here.Seems like such a big waste of the Lord's valuable resources.Just my opinion.

Greg Sr.

 

AMEN Gregory



I honestly believe one gives depending on ones FAITH. You have lots of Faith you give way more than a tithe, and so fourth.
Prayer is another example of this principle

 

Yeah, how do you explain Genesis 6 if we are not suppose to build arks today...all of us?!

 

How do you explain Matthew 10 if I am not to have a change of clothes when I go on missions trips?

 

I believe the bottom line of any giving is a matter of obedience. God certainly does not need our money, but he does desire our obedience in tithing and giving.

I agree, the New Testament does not command it, but do we throw away every principle taught in the Old Testament?

By the way, a tithe is not regular giving every week. It is giving a tenth of your increase.

 

Yes and it is part of the law from which we have been freed.

 

OK I think faithtrustbelief gets the picture by now give the guy a break.

Unless he responds again with another questionable answer.

 

all i am hearing from this board are a handful of individuals caught up in modern theology fighting conviction. tithing is new testament, the teaching that it is not is a lie. the new testement most assuradly tithed.tithing above 10% shows faith but tithing 10% shows obediance to God and his word. the old does not pass away because you wish to use tithing as a neon sign to show how much you love God. that is exactly what Christ rebuked the pharisees for.

and as for this arrogant comment:
however, that many 2-job pastors are that way because they are in personal debt up to their eyeballs .

you are seriously in need of prayer. they are 2 job pastors because the smaller churches cant afford to pay for money grubbing specialist pastors who are full of themselves

my father is bi vocational {with the degree }out of command from God. he pastors a small church because that is where God wants him. his money situation well lets say God has provided well.
so attend small churches before you condemn us all.

 

Bless you bigczar, you have your reward.

 

Posted by bigczardaddy: all i am hearing from this board are a handful of individuals caught up in modern theology fighting conviction. tithing is new testament, the teaching that it is not is a lie. the new testement most assuradly tithed.tithing above 10% shows faith but tithing 10% shows obediance to God and his word. the old does not pass away because you wish to use tithing as a neon sign to show how much you love God. that is exactly what Christ rebuked the pharisees for.

First of all my friend, tithing is not N.T. and the lie is in saying that it is.

Show me where in the N.T. the people in churches EVER tithed.

Show me ANYWHERE in the bible where one man was ever authorized to exact 10% of any mans wages.

Show me where Abraham EVER tithed on his own substance.

He tithed on the spoils of war and turned over the rest to the king. He kept nothing for himself. There is no record that he ever tithed on his income or ever again.

Pro tithing folks speak great lines to promote their view. I call them the standard canned lines. Because you don't have a leg to stand on.

I understand you may be in an otherwise great church that happens to teach tithing and has sucked you into the blessings of the tithe. It is not the law of the tithe that blesses. It is the cheerful heart of giving that blesses.

That is N.T.!

 

Souldman writes.....It is the cheerful heart of giving that blesses.

I will add it is also a THANKFUL, SPIRIT FILLED, LIVING BY FAITH, WANTING TO BLESS OTHERS HEART that gives.

When Jesus came he made it a point to show the importance of the HEART, it wasn't enough to obey
because the pharisees were very good at obeying and having a " RIGHT "outward apperance. It was the HEART Christ came to change. He said if a man lust after a woman in his heart he has commited adultry, along with other sins.

So taking this into consideration of rightly dividing the word, it is the same with giving.

 

The modern teaching is that tithing is what we need to do. Early Bapist ridiculed the catholics for tithing.

 

check out what tom brown says

Tithing began before the law was introduced. The Law simply regulated the tithe. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law, and according to Romans 4:12 we are to walk in the footsteps of the faith of Abraham. If tithing was good for him, it should be good for us, too.

We give tithes like Abraham gave them—not by the Law but by faith. And beside that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law, and ten percent under the Law, shouldn't we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant (Heb 7:22).

There is a passage in Hebrews, which deals with this issue directly. It is Hebrews 7:8:

In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

Melchizedek received Abraham’s tithe. The Hebrew writer shows that Melchizedek is a prefigure of Christ. We can conclude that just as Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek we give a tithe to Christ who is declared to be living.

Some people think this is a new issue. It is as old as the second century when more and more Gentiles were being converted. The early Jewish believers had no problem with tithing since they had done it under the Law and gave it to the priests. They simply gave their tithe to the elders of the church and did by love. However, as the church became less Jewish this issue came up to the church fathers. They answered the question of tithing with Matthew 23:23:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing. I wholeheartedly agree!

Paul also uses the pattern of tithing under the law in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church. The passage often used to contradict this is 2 Corinthians 9:7:

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The argument goes something like this: "Each believer has a right to decide for himself what to give and should not be told what percentage he should contribute."

The problem with this argument is that the above passage is not dealing with giving to support the church, but rather giving to the poor. Under the Law, giving to the poor was a freewill offering. The Law commanded freewill offerings as well as tithes:

But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. (Deut 12:5-6)

It is quite inconsistent for people to appeal to freewill offerings yet claim that tithing has been abolished. Both tithing and freewill offerings were incorporated in the Law as the above passage shows, but they preceded the Law, thus they both should be practiced. The burden of proof is placed on those who teaching that tithing has been abolished. If so, where in the New Testament does it clearly say that tithing has been abolished?


One last thing, notice the resemblance of the language Paul uses in the first passage in Galatians and compare it with the Old Testament passage about tithing:
Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. (Gal 6:6)

And you and the Levites and the aliens among you shall rejoice in all the good things the LORD your God has given to you and your household. When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. (Deut 26:11-12)

Galatians 6 is dealing with giving to the teacher of the gospel and he uses the same language about the Levites receiving the tithe of the people and he calls it "all good things." This is pretty good internal evidence that the early church tithed to the ministers of the gospel.

tom brown ministries

 

Then we are to circumcise ourselves, marry our half-sister, and if we go into a country and kill all the people and take the spoils we are to look up the local priest and give him a tenth-- all "walking in the footsteps of the faith of Abraham."

 

I did. Yeah, a Pentecostal televangelist has a lot to say about how much people ought to give...

 

Bigczardaddy,
You keep talkin but you don't hear a word. Your argument is flawed and full of holes.

Todays churches that practise tithing are wrong. The tithe doesn't even resemble the way it was done in the O.T.

Besides that, answer my charges:

Posted by Soulman: Show me where in the N.T. the people in churches EVER tithed.

Show me ANYWHERE in the bible where one man was ever authorized to exact 10% of any mans wages.

Show me where Abraham EVER tithed on his own substance.

He tithed on the spoils of war and turned over the rest to the king. He kept nothing for himself. There is no record that he ever tithed on his income or ever again.

Please answer these before you continue ranting .

 

Alcott, that's pretty funny stuff! Don't forget the circumcision.

 

lev 27:30-33
gen 14:18-20
gen 28:19-22
2 chron 31:5
mal 3:7-12
luke 11:42
matt 23:23

the command,how God feels and Christ confirming. if his word is not enough then nothing more can be said for you are your own authority .and will stand in judgement.
i will stand with God and his perfect word.

 

I will stand with God and His perfect Word as well and be a dedicated New Testament GIVER in accordance with what the New Testament teaches on the subject.And since the New Testament doesn't address the "law" of tithing for Christians under the dispensation of GRACE I won't go back to the Old Testament and try to JERK passages out of context to fit today or IGNORE the fact that born again New Testament folk AREN'T being addressed in ANY of those passages brother bigczar.They just don't fit.....but I guess if you are gonna compell people to give in order to meet your big church budgets you got to try and make them fit...right?Why my goodness....GIVE by Faith???....as 'every man purposeth in his heart'?Now we'd NEVER meet that pesky ole budget like that....would we?Go figure....!

Greg Sr.

 

wow someone sounds upset did i hit a nerve. slinging dirt and making assumptions definantly sounds like someone who is grounded in Gods word and not one who is under deep conviction.

you have no idea the size of my church or budget.

what do you consider large and are big churches evil?