Is Drinking Wine Wrong??

HP: I would put it this way. The actions, whether sinful or not on the part of the father, directly contributed, in this case, to the consumption of alcohol by those boys. That influence, by the father, I believe did in fact 'contribute' to their deaths.

 

All you that advocate drinking alcoholic beverages have yet to produce scripture to show that Jesus drank alcoholic wine. The wine Jesus created could not have been alcoholic, as has been proven by scripture over and over.

 

Every person, when they take their first drink of alcohol, feels the effects of it as soon as it hits their bloodstream. Over time, as they continue drinking, they build up a tolerance to that amount and are able to drink more.

The fact that the amount that made one tipsy the first time they partook of the alcohol no longer seems to have an effect on them shows that it indeed has had an effect on them. They have allowed the alcohol to deceive them into thinking it is ok to drink, just as Solomon warned it would do.

The 'one glass' has numbed their logic to the point that they do not realize its effect.

 

offensive remark deleted

 

If drinking wine is sin then Jesus is not even capable of dying for our sin because that would have made him a sinner.

That is not a theology which I am able to disagee with scripture on.

Scripture gives many warnings about drinking too much but never about abstinence.

 

<snip> <snip>

 

produce scripture that undeniably proves Jesus drank alcoholic wine. Otherwise, quit accusing my Lord of the same thing the Pharisees did.

Scripture has been given to show we are to abstain, yet it is rejected.

Men chose to walk in darkness....

 

Amen:thumbs:

 

I agree! There is no mention in scripture that Jesus ever drank wine. Also, the wine that he made does not nessacarly prove it was fermented.
You cannot say either way with those verses. Just because it says the men drunk the wine, doesn't mean they were drunk.

I don't recall any priest or high priest able to drink strong drink or fermented wine. please correct me if I am wrong, but Jesus is our High Priest, if they couldn't drink it in the OT, what makes you think Jesus drank it?
:wavey:

 

ME: I’m just trying to understand this logic. Every time the Bible mentions wine and drunk in the same verse its wine, but every time the Bible mentions wine and it’s not followed by drunk or mocker it’s grape juice. This sounds convenient, but not practical, biblical, or logical.

(Source for quotes: Norman F. Rowe)
(Previously titled Is it Christian to Drink?)
Quotes: "A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes merry" says Ecclesiastes 10:19 with the Hebrew word requiring a fermented product! Then at the "Last Supper" Jesus passed around wine to His disciples. Since this was six to seven months after the grape harvest and since there was no way to preserve grape juice, this also had to be fermented wine. (The actual phrase is "fruit of the vine," but, as pointed out by The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible, this expression was "employed by the Jews from time immemorial for the wine partaken of on sacred occasions, as at the Passover and on the evening of the Sabbath. The Greeks also used the term as a synonym of wine which was capable of intoxication.")
The Greek word used in John 2:1-11 for "wine" and in Paul's command to Timothy to drink wine (I Timothy 5:23) is the term oinos. This same word appears in Ephesians 5:18 ("be not drunk with wine") and Luke 10:34 ("and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine"). Can you get drunk on grape juice? Would you pour grape juice on a wound? Of course not! You get drunk on alcoholic wine and fermented wine would provide sufficient alcoholic content to serve as an antiseptic. The New Testament always refers to fermented wine. And how could the apostles stand to be accused of being drunk on grape juice (Acts 2:13-15)?”

 

HBSMN... you say alcott was name-calling... i think that you calling those who drink alcohol unsaved - is worse then name-calling.

"they walk in darkness" quotes from proverbs. etc.
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you're not unsaved if you drink - why? because its not a matter of righteousness. you got that yet?
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show specific scripture that says something along the lines of "thou shalt not drink"

ok? then there may be a decent discussion.

you may say in response - show a scripture that says somehting like "thou shalt drink"
huh? no - its not in there.

WHY? because its NOT a matter of righteousness.
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no where in scripture does it say to abstain from alcohol.
where it seems that it does - it is refering to getting drunk - its red because you are tempted.
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if this is a matter of saved or unsaved - why wasn't it written in the ten commandments?

lol

 

Produce Scripture that undeniably proves Jesus DIDN'T drink alcoholic wine.

 

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Alcott's name calling is very offensive. I haven't been on this board long--but long enough to be offended by what Alcott said. Making fun of a person's nic is un-Christlike--not the same as saying someone is unsaved. HBSMN did say people choose to walk in darkness.

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Isn't it? Get what yet? Did you read the story that Heavenly Pilgrim posted (in this thread) about those 2 young boys--was the man "righteous" in allowing his son to drink beer and have beer in his refrigerator?

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)

Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. (Proverbs 23:31)

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands. Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst. Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. (Isaiah 5:11-14)

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If you never drink the first drink, you will never get drunk--that's pretty basic. Alcohol is a "legal" drug"--a very dangerous and toxic drug. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that---just read the statistics.

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Proverbs 20:1 & 23:31 is most definitely a warning about DRINKING, NOT GETTING DRUNK--getting drunk is the RESULT of what those two verses are warning about.

Does it have to be written down in black and white for you to see? It probably IS in the Ten Commandments (Thou shalt not covet). It might not be a matter of salvation, but it certainly IS a matter of being a good Christian witness.

 

Why is it a matter of good Christian witness? There are groups of Christians who see nothing wrong with moderate consumption - Episcopal, Presbyterian, etc.


I'm staying out of this otherwise, by the way, because I can see no benefit in arguing either side. We always end up calling eah other unsaved, and causing others to stumble, and in the end we are not convinced of the "other side's"
argument, and remain unchanged ourselves.

There's simply too much danger in chewing one another up over this.

 

These deal with abuse, in correct context.

Tylenol is a "legal" drug, too. Do you abstain from that?

Not in the least. I have yet to see someone go into a raging, mocking fit from one glass of wine. Proverbs 20:1 is dealing with DRUNKENESS.

Has nothing to do whatsoever with being a "witness". Maybe to the legalists, but not to the lost.

 

1Ti 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

If bishops are not allowed to drink wine what makes us think its ok for us to drink it? Better yet, what makes anyone think that its ok for our High Priest to drink it? It doesn't make any sense.

Le 10:9
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Le 10:10
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Le 10:11
And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Aaron was not allowed to drink while in the tabernacle. If Jesus IS OUR sacrifice for our sins, how can he be allowed to drink wine? Makes NO SENSE!

Also, since Christ rose, WE are the tabernacle. So, we are always IN the tabernacle. If Aaron cannot drink while he is in the tabernacle, what makes you think we can?

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Is Christ our KING? YES!

YES, drinking wine that is fermented is WRONG.

 

First of all, these are not directives or commands. This passage is decribing desirable traits. Are they mandatory? No.

Furthermore in the following, deacons are permitted wine, but not too much.

1Ti 3:8 Likewise5615 must the deacons1249 be grave,4586 not3361 doubletongued,1351 not3361 given4337 to much4183 wine,3631 not3361 greedy of filthy lucre;146

 

In Proverbs 20:1--Wine and strong drink are NOUNS--it is the WINE and the STRONG DRINK that is the SUBJECT --NOT drunkenness. All you are doing is trying to twist scripture to justify your use of alcoholic beverages. You may say you don't drink alcohol, but you talk in this thread and in others as if you do and in defending the drinking of alcohol, you are throwing a stumblingblock in the path of others which the Word explicitly forbids. The Word of God is the Judge and it has already judged those who refuse to walk in its light. I rest my case.

AMEN SoulWinningLady!!

 

We are no longer bound by Old Testament laws and works.