The Lord Has His Way In The Whirlwind

Webdog,

Do you believe that the hurricane was not under God's complete control or authority?

Again, leave the Calvinism debate out of it.

 

This is a lie and blasphemy straight from the pits of hell. This sounds like what the serpent would say to Eve.
God allowing something to happen does not mean He caused it. God causes abortion, murder, child molestation, ifidelity, satan worship? This is the sad and heretical aspect of reformed theology, which takes the blame off of man and puts it on God. </font>[/QUOTE]God has the power to do something about natural disasters. Whether you want to think He was active in causing the disaster or not is irrelevant. He is responsible.

Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? </font>[/QUOTE]So what you say is, since God has the power to stop sin, if He doesn't, He caused it? I would tread lightly with this kind of accusation of a Holy God.

Did you read in the paper how a "miraculous" gust of dry air from the midwest weakened the storm to a level 4 prior to landfall? Is this God "doing something about it"? According to your flawed view then, is this storm NOT of God?

On a side note, since God didn't intervene before the BTK killer tortured and murdered his victims, you hold God responsible for these horrific crimes? If you do, God and satan would be partners and not enemies!

 

Everything, including satan and sin is under God's authority. It's only because of God's mercy things aren't worse off than they are. Again, God is not the author of sin if He allows it.

Do you give money to starving children? If not, are you the cause of them starving?
Do you allow the homeless to live in your home? If not, are you the cause of them being homeless? You can do something about it, right, you must be the cause of it!

Calvinism was not mentioned in my post.

 

I knew it weakened before landfall, but I had not heard this story...do you have a link or something?

 

I knew it weakened before landfall, but I had not heard this story...do you have a link or something? </font>[/QUOTE]http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_HOW_BIG?SITE=OHALL&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-31-10-51-16

 

Webdog,

Let's separate two issues - nature and human will. Let's leave human will out of the discussion for now.

Do you believe that God has complete control over nature?

 

Did you not read my answer? Does nature fall under "everything"?

 

Okay then. I'm not sure where we disagree on this issue.

 

Mark you are sadly mistaken. Yes, God is sovereign and knows what is happening and the results. He's able to make something good from all the pain in the world, whether it be terrorist attacks or hurricanes. But bring the hurricane as judgement, come on? Does that mean when a child loses his mother to cancer, we should tell him he suffers as a result of God's perfect judgement? That his mother is gone as a result of her sin?

jman

 

The disagreement is this:

 

I won't speak for Mark, because I don't go as far as him and saying that I know this hurricane was God's judgment. But I believe you are just as wrong in stating that it is NOT judgment from God. Truth is, we don't know God's purpose in bringing this hurricane. I suspect that his purposes are myriad - so many that it would make our head spin, since we are not God. It could be some for judgment, some to bring men to Christ, etc.

So for all of your crying against Mark for being arrogant, you are just as arrogant to say this was not God's judgment.

 

I knew it weakened before landfall, but I had not heard this story...do you have a link or something? </font>[/QUOTE]http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_HOW_BIG?SITE=OHALL&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-31-10-51-16 </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks that is very interesting.

 

The disagreement is this:

</font>[/QUOTE]What is the difference between having complete control over nature (as you have agreed to) and causing it? BTW, "will of God" is meant as decretive will - that which God decrees.

Clarify for me - was the hurricane somehow a cosmic accident that God couldn't stop or direct?

 

The disagreement is this:

</font>[/QUOTE]What is the difference between having complete control over nature (as you have agreed to) and causing it? BTW, "will of God" is meant as decretive will - that which God decrees.

Clarify for me - was the hurricane somehow a cosmic accident that God couldn't stop or direct? </font>[/QUOTE]Having control does not mean causing the consequences within the outcome. Our government had control in going to war. Does that mean they are the cause of the deaths to our military? No, the insurgents are.

God could have stopped lucifer from becoming satan. He could have stopped Eve from eating from the tree. He could have stopped the two planes from hitting the twin towers. I don't know why God didn't, but I do know that He is not the cause and author of sin.

To answer your question about the hurricane, it is the result of sin, as any disaster and death is. He obviously did allow it. He did curtail the destruction and potential loss of life. http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_HOW_BIG?SITE=OHALL&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-31-10-51-16

 

The disagreement is this:

</font>[/QUOTE]What is the difference between having complete control over nature (as you have agreed to) and causing it? BTW, "will of God" is meant as decretive will - that which God decrees.

Clarify for me - was the hurricane somehow a cosmic accident that God couldn't stop or direct? </font>[/QUOTE]Having control does not mean causing the consequences within the outcome. Our government had control in going to war. Does that mean they are the cause of the deaths to our military? No, the insurgents are.

God could have stopped lucifer from becoming satan. He could have stopped Eve from eating from the tree. He could have stopped the two planes from hitting the twin towers. I don't know why God didn't, but I do know that He is not the cause and author of sin.

To answer your question about the hurricane, it is the result of sin, as any disaster and death is. He obviously did allow it. He did curtail the destruction and potential loss of life. http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_HOW_BIG?SITE=OHALL&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-31-10-51-16 </font>[/QUOTE]I guess your last statement is a bit too deistic for me. Hurricanes don't have wills like Satan or you or I do. And God isn't playing chess with nature, as if nature makes it move first (as a result of sin or whatever) and then God makes his move to check nature. God is in direct control of nature. What you describe is like a chess match between God and nature, at least that is the tone I gather from your posts.

 

Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Romans 11
33Oh, the depth of (AY)the riches both of the (AZ)wisdom and knowledge of God! (BA)How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For (BB)WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or (BC)WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

 

That's not what I am implying. Like the above scripture posted, God uses all things for His glory, even natural disasters. God could have showed His power by allowing the hurricane, and He also could have showed His power in weakening it. I don't know, but I will never say "it was God's will that....". I only know God's will by what the Bible says, and that is He uses everything (sin, sinners, disasters, etc.) for His glory.

 

Andy,

How is it that you think someone is arrogant by disagreeing about this? Maybe your to busy pointing fingers at everyone to think clearly? The bible cleraly states that we can never understand God's way's, thats biblical and a given. The first commandment God has given us is to love God and love our neighbor, what the people need in the south from those of us that believe is our prayers and support, not a theological debate on God's judgement of their sin and why he allowed this to happen. God knows his followers by the fruit in their lives.


jman

 

Corry, I don't know if this scripture you posted was to show that God caused the hurricane, but I will comment that all things were created by God (wind, temperature, water, earth) that formed the hurricane. This does not mean the hurricane itself was caused by God.

This is similar to God creating the garden, Eve, the tree Eve ate from, the serpent, and satan. This does not mean God was the author of sin.

 

Jman, you scoffed at the idea that this could somehow be judgment from God. Mark says it is. You say it's not. I say I don't know. If we don't need theological debate, then why are you here debating?