Applause!

No, let's use the standard definition of applause, and consider that in our culture it relates to performance, not to worship. I don't know when it dates to, but it certainly does not go back 2000+ years, does it? If it does then someone please let me know, because that would actually be an argument in favor of the point I am trying to make, because I don't believe we have any documentation of applause being used in worship until very recently, like maybe the 1970s? It is a means of expressing approval and gratitude for a performance or a good speech, etc. The fact that many of us now think there is "nothing wrong" with it points to a blurring of the lines between entertainment and worship, which we already dicussed in an earlier thread. There is nothing wrong with an audience showing appreciation, but a congregation is not supposed to be an audience.

What if I was asking if it was appropriate to tip your pastor? You would probably say no. I think most of us have probably been known to put some money in the pastor's hand now and again, but we would vociferously maintain that doing so does not constitute "tipping." Similarly there is nothing wrong with smacking your two hands together in a worship service, but sustained applause following a song or musical number or a sermon seems way out of context, doesn't it? As much so as leaving $2.00 on the podium for your pastor?

Let me ask you this: If you believe that applause is all well and good and within the "letter of the law" of the Bible, why do you think that countless generations were opposed to it, and why do you believe that opinion on the part of so many has changed so recently? What is the root of the sweeping paradigm revision on this issue?

 

One of the best arguments in favor of congregational singing I have ever heard. Thank you for that. I shall use it in the future.

 

Congregational singing is not performing. Nobody "gets up there." There is no stage. We sit right there in our seats and sing together. The only thing most people these days would have to compare it to is a group of people singing "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" around a campfire. Not done for the benefit of an audience, but rather for the joy of participating in it oneself. And yes ordinary members of the congregation take worship seriously enough to put effort into it, to learn to sing parts, try to improve their God-given singing voices, to learn to read music, to lead, and to pitch by ear, and the vast majority are quite good at it, too. It is not beyond ordinary mortals to learn to sing beautifully together, and I suppose that is why God specified it as one of the things that should take place in public worship. It is a collective activity that binds the congregation together in praise. It does require devotion to doing something beautiful for God, and maybe a one-week singing school to learn the principles. "Worship" is not synonymous with performing, is it? It is something every member of the congregation is supposed to do. And who's dictating? I would LOVE for everyone to give it a try, though!

I would take applause during a worship service as sufficient reason to find somewhere else to worship, it would disappoint me that much. I don't know where applauding came from, except that someone started trying to entertain folks on Sunday morning, and the congregation made the "natural" association with applauding. It would never have occurred to anyone to applaud if church services had not turned into a performance, and congregations into an audience.

Donna, here is the difference between clapping and applauding, at least as I would use the terms: If I want to get my dog's attention, I clap once or twice, I don't applaud. If I clap in time to music, I am not applauding. If I clap to activate a sound-triggered lamp, I am not applauding. "Applause" implies the role of "audience." The only time one ever applauds is as part of an audience, right? This is English semantics, not Bible scholarship.

 

It is "wrong" as a custom in the sense of being misguided, but it is not an individual moral issue. People just follow the custom and if they like the church they assume it is right without thinking about it, and I am sure there are folks on here who didn't even realize how new and how controversial it is. It is more misguided out of not knowing what the alternative could be.

I think it is also misguided to see every issue of faith as a simple matter of moral "wrong" and "right." We are not under the law. There is also "better" and "worse" and many other parameters. Why look at the Bible in terms of 'what we can get away with.' Oftentimes we obey the letter and miss the spirit entirely.

 

Donna, you are missing my point entirely. The point is not that it isn't worship because people are clapping their hands. It is that they are applauding because it isn't worship. If it wasn't entertainment they wouldn't applaud. There is no other occasion at which we applaud, except during performances, speeches, etc.

I don't understand what you are asking. Yes, God sees what is in the heart, not what comes out of the mouth. Is that it? The key point to me is whether one is participating in worship or not.

No, Donna. Figure out what I am saying about applause, as it is directed toward someone who has performed. It is not simply clapping one's hands together many times!

Now do as you like. I am the person who once accidentally talked someone into believing that it would be perfectly fine to have exotic dancing as part of a church service (since the Bible doesn't say it is wrong, after all), remember? I am just giving my opinion, exactly as you are giving yours.

 

Then don't. I am even having a hard time explaining the difference between clapping and applause, fortheloveofmercy!

 

BTW, I missed this before and now want to respond to it. I also don't feel that performing is wrong per se, but it is not worship and has no place in a worship service. Nothing wrong with singing onstage on some other occasion, though.