Featured To Obey God rather than tradition is legalism? Really??

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT]
” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is tobe put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

...

Even your own doctrine will at least admit that all 10 Commandments were valid before the cross.



But Jesus used specific terms "The WORD of God" the "Commandment of God".

This is a perfect illustration of the religious traditions of man - trying to set aside one of the Commandments of God.


He condemns the practice "in general" when He says "and you do many things such as that.”

Well there you have the contrast.

I am going to stick with the Bible on this one.

He condemns the practice "in general" when He says "and you do many things such as that.”

Your any-old-excuse-will do is like the response to Act 17:11 where we argue "Sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine - and Catholics argue "oh no - only of that ONE doctrinal issue in Acts 17:11 - whether Jesus is the Messiah".

You can find that sort of any-ol-excuse will do response to these air tight examples - all day long.

So then the Commandment of God -- is in fact the "Word of God", and "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine - again would not allow for setting aside the "Word of God" -- the "Commandment of God" in favor of man made tradition.

in Christ,

Bob

 

So might the RC christian say about his idea of replacing the 2nd command with the "traditions of the church".

Any ol excuse will do - for getting around this teaching of Christ - has almost no end.

in Christ,

Bob

 

And 1023 in the NT. Is this supposed to be an argument against either OT or NT?

If 613 commands is not an argument against the OT - then 1023 is not an argument against the NT.

I am good with that.

He did specify that 5th commandment.

But the principle applies to all 10.

He calls all of them "the Word of God".

If your point is that this also applies to all the word of God - the entire OT and that man made tradition does not have authority over any of it - and cannot set aside any of it - since it is as Christ said "The Word of God" -

I am good with that as well.

But if you point is that the TEN Commandments are not to be accepted as the "Commandments of God" - when in fact these are those spoken directly by God, written with the finger of God, kept inside the ark of the covenant - and all the rest of scripture - written by man - and kept outside of the ark of the covenant. -- well selecting THIS special document as "NOT the Commandments of God" seems to be the wrong way to go.

He was not approving of setting aside the Commandment of God - the Word of God - and replacing it with the tradition of man.

I say that at the very least this includes the TEN commandments - you seem to say that at the very least this includes all of the OT - I am good with that as well because I was going to be happy just to get you to accept the smaller set - if you want to go for the whole enchilada -- well all the better.

No argument from me.

in Christ,

Bob

 

He was not approving of setting aside the Commandment of God - the Word of God - and replacing it with the tradition of man.

I say that at the very least this includes the TEN commandments (yes all TEN) - you now seem to say that at the very least this includes all of the OT - I am good with that as well because I was going to be happy just to get you to accept the smaller set - if you want to go for the whole enchilada -- well all the better.

No argument from me.

in Christ,

Bob

 

My argument in my reference to the NT is that the teaching of Christ in Mark 7 applies to all of the Word of God - all of scripture - not just the OT.

I am also saying that Jesus does not pick some obscure text - but one of the TEN Commandments themselves (what many today call the "moral law of God") - to illustrate the point.

Most specifically instead of Christ argument that in the OT text of scripture you find the Commandments of God - but the TEN Commandments are not included - as the "Commandments of God" - or not included in the "Word of God" -- Christ specifically points to the one of the TEN Commandments pointing out that they are indeed "the Word of God" and in fact "the Commandment of God".

Which brings us to the fact that the saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12.

I think we both knew that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Most specifically instead of Christ argument that in the OT text of scripture you find the Commandments of God - but the TEN Commandments are not included - as the "Commandments of God" - or not included in the "Word of God" -- Christ specifically points to the one of the TEN Commandments pointing out that they are indeed "the Word of God" and in fact "the Commandment of God".

1. The last time I checked Ex 20 was part of the 39 books of the OT.
2. The last time I checked - Mark 7 is a place where Christ Himself selects one of the TEN Commandments to make his point about the "Commandment of God" and the "Word of God" not being up for deletion by the traditions of man.
3. The last time I checked the TEN Commandments were the only part of the OT 39 books written by the finger of God (in stone), spoken directly by God to the people and kept inside the ark of the Covenant.

1. The last Time I checked Christ selects violation of the 5th commandment as an example of the error being condemned in Mark 7.

2. The Bible itself refers to the TEN Commandments as the "Commandments of God" as we already saw repeatedly pointed out.

3. In Mark 7 Christ is condemning all the cases where this is done - not just the one in the case of the 5th commandment.

13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

John says that the saints "Keep the Commandments of God" 1John 5:2-3 and Rev 14:12. John is the same author reminding us in John 14:15 of the quote of the Ex 20:6 statement to "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" where Christ affirms it - saying "If you Love Me Keep My Commandments".

in Christ,

Bob

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT]
” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is tobe put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

...

Even your own doctrine will at least admit that all 10 Commandments were valid before the cross.



But Jesus used specific terms "The WORD of God" the "Commandment of God".

This is a perfect illustration of the religious traditions of man - trying to set aside one of the Commandments of God.

He condemns the practice "in general" when He says "and you do many things such as that.”

I am going to stick with the Bible on this one.

So then even by your own standards - in Mark 7 Jesus is defending the Commandments of God against the traditions of man.

And even by your own standards - Christ's Word spoken in John 14:15 "IF you Love ME KEEP My Commandments" is a quote of the Ex 20:6 statement of God Himself blessing those who "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" - a quote in full harmony with the Law of God.

Hebrews 4:2 says "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also".

Hebrews 8 says that the Law of God is "written on the mind and heart" under the New Covenant.

Rev 14:12 says the saints of God "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".

1John 5:2-3 says the same thing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Same rule as before the cross Matt 7 "Judge not that you be not judged".

Before the cross,... after the cross - -- no change in that "Judge not" rule.

But after the cross - and in the new earth - and for all eternity "From Sabbath to Sabbath" the Bible says "Shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.

The annual shadow Sabbaths are listed in Lev 23 - they are based in animal sacrifice.

The sabbath of Gen 2:3 was not based in animal sacrifice - nor is it to this very day. And as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" admits - the very same day is kept as the 7th day Sabbath "from creation to the resurrection".

Nor will it be when in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath" we will see that "ALL mankind comes before God to worship".

For the "Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27

in Christ,

Bob

 

Your claim that Christians would want to live in rebellion against the Word of God does not stand the test of scripture.

in Is 66:23 - God tells us that "from Sabbath to Sabbath" ALL MANKIND is to come before Him "to Worship".

your claim seems to be that it would not be a violation of law - to ignore God on that point.

The sunday-keeping D.L. Moody himself condemns fellow sunday-keeping Baptists that choose such a short-sighted solution for avoiding the 4th commandment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You argue that not to be in rebellion against the 4th commandment is displeasing to the God who gave it??

Your logic is illusive at that point.

By contrast - your own sunday-keeping D.L. Moody - condemns your own opposition to the Word of God in that regard. If even HE notices the gaping flaw in your argument - how much more should I who am not a Sunday-keeping Baptist!

========================

D.L. Moody

.
The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

​

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question.

Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment?

Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law?

Are you ready to step into the scales?

Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was.

I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins withthe word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stoneat Sinai.How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

...
[FONT=&quot]Sabbath-breaker, are you ready to step into the scales?[/FONT]

====================================== end quote of D.L. Moody.

 

Your response to a verbatim quote of Moody that debunks your wild accusation is that verbatim quotes are "misstated"??

Do you really expect to be taken seriously using such methods?

Why not be serious?

As was already noted in the post above - your doctrine was debunked here -

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Originally Posted by BobRyan
[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT]
” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is tobe put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

...

Even your own doctrine will at least admit that all 10 Commandments were valid before the cross.



But Jesus used specific terms "The WORD of God" the "Commandment of God".

This is a perfect illustration of the religious traditions of man - trying to set aside one of the Commandments of God.

He condemns the practice "in general" when He says "and you do many things such as that.”

--------------------------------------

And as was already pointed out above - your methods and position is debunked EVEN by your own fellow sunday-keeping Baptist peers such as D.L. Moody.

To which you complain that Moody is even quoted - verbatim!!

how sad that your own argument has failed you both on Bible grounds and even by the standards of your own unday-keeping Baptist peers such as D.L. Moody. .

in Christ,

Bob