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Featured The Secret Rapture return of Christ approaches

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Aug 25, 2014.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So John was wrong when he saw a 1000 yera period between the first and second resurrection then?

    And again, the problem her eis that the Bible when rightly dividing gives us the rapture, but steeped in your covenant theology, you just refuse to see them in it!
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I will get to that in due time.
    You haven't documented it.
    It is slander. That is sin. It is against the rules.

    It is an attack of a personal nature, not against me, but against another person, being posted again and again and again, without any proof that it is true. It needs to stop.
    People don't receive revelation by falling on their head.
    You need to use yours.
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    From: JOHN NELSON DARBY AND THE RAPTURE by Dr. Thomas Ice
    http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandth.pdf

    I have posted the above on numerous occasions. Therefore, it is false for anyone to claim that I have not presented proof that Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture and classic dispensationalism. I understand that many do not like to stare truth in the face but there it is. You do with it as you please but don't lecture or threaten me because you cannot stand the truth! Those who are interested can go to the link I presented above.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    No! You are wrong! When you can explain away the Scripture I have posted dealing with the resurrection starting with John 5:28, 29 then perhaps you will have something worth saying!
    When you can show one verse of Scripture that shows a pre-trib rapture then perhaps you will have some basis for your doctrine!
     
  5. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Many have you just do not want to see them and refuse to want to learn. No one can convince you.

    Read my article
    http://www.cerm.info/bible_studies/Eschatology/Pretribulationism.pdf

    Refute my article here.
     
    #25 evangelist6589, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Then post the Scripture. All I get is promises that Scripture have been posted but I have yet to see one.

    I would also remind you that Scripture is the truth, not the dispensationalist interpretation of Scripture, or the Darby interpretation, or the Scofield interpretation, or the Ryrie interpretation or the >>>>>>>>>>>>!
     
  7. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Lord almighty. I just did!!! I posted a link to my article loaded with verses.
     
  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    End Time Prophecy is Big Business and if you don't believe so check out Ancient and American History and the books and movies that come out of it. Churches have rises from it... The Millerites came out of it. Some sold their homes gone to the tops of mountains to wait the coming of the Lord. Ellen White and The Seventh Day Adventist. Generation after generation thought this was the generation in which Christ was going to come and many said they had biblical proof that this was their generation when he would show up. Not time yet. From the founding of this country each and every generation... The American Revolution, The War Of 1812, The Civil War, WWl, WWll , Korea, Vietnam and so on and so forth. I ask you why is this generation any different from the others? They will tell you they had biblical proof also. Was their generation any more wicked than this generation? I was reading Spurgeon this morning and brethren man has not changed since creation. Charles had London going to hell in a hand basket. I bet people during the reign of Hitler thought this was the end too. Many Jews it really was. I'm glad it wasn't because I was born after Hitler died. So is this generation more evil than any generation before? God flooded the whole earth because of one generation and he repented that he had made man and it grieved him in his heart. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord and he saved eight. What about the generation of Jesus Christ? God sent them his Son and they crucified him and tried to kill his teaching by killing those that followed him. Is our generation more evil than these? Has anyone counted the churches in our country that worship God and his Son Jesus Christ? We have free liberty to worship as we see fit? Where is the persecution? Are there more earthquakes than ever before or does our technology allow us to see what has been on a daily basis? Is the evil more prevalent or does technology show us was had been hidden from us in secret has always been naked and revealed in Gods eyes. IMHO We do not need more End Time Philosophy but a good taste of persecution to bring us to the understanding of why our forefathers came to this country in the first place. FOR FREEDOM OF RELIGION!... As far as Jesus return... As the Old Baptist Hymn declares "We'll WAIT till JESUS comes!"
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Deuteronomy 5:11. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

    I read the link earlier. It proved nothing to me. Perhaps you can produce just one verse of Scripture that proves a pre-trib removal of the Church!
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    John 14:1-3 says nothing about the pre-trib rapture. That is simply a promise from the Lord Jesus Christ that I expect id fulfilled thousands of times each day.

    John 14:1-4
    1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
    2. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
    3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


    1st Thessalonians 4:13-16 certainly does not prove any pre-trib rapture and it also proves your OP to be wrong. This passage is simply to inform the Saints at Thessalonica that the resurrection has not occurred yet. It was a message of comfort to the worriers! {verse 18} The message is that when the resurrection does occur the dead Saints will be raised with a glorified body before the living Saints do. Nothing is said about the unbelievers because it is doubtful they believed in a resurrection of the body!

    1st Thessalonians 4:13-18
    13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


    And as most dispensationalists you totally splinter Daniels prophecy, particularly the 70th week which happened about 2000 years ago!
     
    #31 OldRegular, Aug 26, 2014
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  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Double post but worth reading twice for some!

    John 14:1-3 says nothing about the pre-trib rapture. That is simply a promise from the Lord Jesus Christ that I expect id fulfilled thousands of times each day.

    John 14:1-4
    1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
    2. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
    3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


    1st Thessalonians 4:13-16 certainly does not prove any pre-trib rapture and it also proves your OP to be wrong. This passage is simply to inform the Saints at Thessalonica that the resurrection has not occurred yet. It was a message of comfort to the worriers! {verse 18} The message is that when the resurrection does occur the dead Saints will be raised with a glorified body before the living Saints do. Nothing is said about the unbelievers because it is doubtful they believed in a resurrection of the body!

    1st Thessalonians 4:13-18
    13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


    And as most dispensationalists you totally splinter Daniels prophecy, particularly the 70th week which happened about 2000 years ago!
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Here is your ungodly slanderous post, which, if repeated again will incur an infraction:
    That is not true.
    Here is what Ice documents and says about Darby's experience:
    He had a riding accident. That is true. He never received any "revelation" at that time. In fact he never received any "revelation" at all, did he?
    During the time that he had to "convalesce" or recover he had a lot of time to think, as happens to many of us when we get in an accident and are confined to a bed. It is then he began to think about these things: "the questions in his mind began to resolve themselves."
    You have been foolishly charging him of fictitious ideas resulting from a fall off of a horse. Rather it comes from meditation from God's Word during a time of recovery. How can you be trusted if you are not an honest man in your reporting of events?
     
  14. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    A 10 page paper required a ToC? You tackled this subject in 10 pages??? Oh... and you're first sentence had a grammar error. I think I'll pass on reading this.

    I tell you what. I will read your paper and respond to it if you read and handle N. T. Wright's short article refuting the rapture. Deal?


    BTW... as I said but received no response... with so many signs to this secret rapture... I guess its not much of a secret.
     
    #34 Greektim, Aug 26, 2014
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    10 pages double spaced is not much room to cover what is in the table of contents in a very detailed manner. Neither was there any clear titles given to mark the different sections listed in the table of contents. There is very little to refute as the paper is shallow at best.
     
  16. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    If you have grammar objections please post and make sure you are correct as I am always looking to correct grammar and spelling errors. However sometimes the problem is not me but the editor, as different editors do not always agree/disagree on grammar errors.

    I am not perfect and have found a number of grammar and spelling errors in the books I read, most of which by pastors.
     
  17. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Its far more than what you have provided in your opposing arguments. Oh and by the way the paper is not intended to be a full 500 page book on the topic, but just a general synopsis on the issue.
     
  18. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Verses in defense of the Pretrib View

    Rev 3:10-Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

    No Old testament passage on the tribulation even mentions the church why is that? Refer to Deut 4:29-30, Jer 30:4-11, Dan 8:24-27. Also no New Testament passage on the tribulation mentions the church why is that? Mt 13:30, 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thes 1:9-10; 5:4-9, 2 Thes 2:1-11.

    The scripture in 1 Thes 5:9, and Rom 5:9 state that the church is not destined for wrath, so why would the church go through the great day of God's wrath? Please think about this question for you reply, and look up the verses. No I will quote them.

    1 Thes 5:9-9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Rom 5:9-9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

    This is just a general synopsis but it provides enough evidence to persuade those whom think rationally about this and the scripture of the pre-trib view.
     
    #38 evangelist6589, Aug 26, 2014
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  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Thank you!
     
  20. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    I actually found the error frequently. When you connect two independent clauses w/ a conjunction, you didn't add the comma. It is always a comma and a coordinating conjunction.

     
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