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Are creationists purposely misquoting evolutionists?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Jun 1, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is your job actually follow up all these bogus claims with "evidence" - all I need to do is provide the devastating quotes FROM your OWN atheist darwinist camp that can't help itself in exposing blunder after blunder in evolutionism.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    Bob

    You have already stated for us tonight that you do not find it important for you quotes to be truthful. You do not deny that the quotes that you use completely change the intention of the author by removing context.

    The end result of all this is that your "devastating quotes" are no such thing if you have to change the meaning of the quote to get them.

    You are like an atheist who would quote the Bible as saying "There is no God." Is that an honest quote? The words are there in that order! How would you respond?

    You would rightly respond by showing the whole verse in question in context and show that the meaning as originally written was changed.

    And that is what I do to your quotes. To get them, you are forced to edit until the original meaning is lost. When the original context is restored, they are no longer so "devastating" and usually, in fact, undermine the very case you are trying to make.

    I just cannot understand why you continue to defend dishonesty.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    My my - look who is being untruthful and practicing revisionist history. hmmm "surprise surprise" it is UTEOTW "again".

    Why do you keep doing that?

    Do you consider it a compelling form of debate?

    Why not respond substantively to points instead of using these failed evolutionist tactics over and over?

    What???!!

    Do you really think that when you tell these little "stories" they are "believed"???

    Come on UTEOTW - I know you can do better than this. Usually when you are just making stuff up you try to be a little more subtle. How in the world to you expect this form of deception to work.

    Where in the world (please provide the quote) did I claim "I am changing the meaning of the quote"??

    Answer: Nowhere!

    Then you "make up" an argument like the one above "as if" your fairytale is going to get some traction?

    What makes you think that such antics work in real life UTEOTW?

    Why in the world would I want to "change the meaning"??




    I just cannot understand why you continue to defend dishonesty
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Once I was a tadpole beginning to begin,
    then I was a frog with my tail tucked in.
    Then I was a monkey in a banyan tree,
    and now I’m a professor with a Ph.D. :thumbs:
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Here we have a classic blunder where believers in atheist darwinism are seen to cling to their "orthodoxy" so blatantly that they are willing to "tell story after story" just to prop up their orthodox faith in evolutionism - presenting them as if they are "science".

    The "obvious" point here is that we have one of the heroes of believers in atheist darwinism - an actual atheist - admitting that they are engaged in "story telling" and then this source actually confess the "obvious" saying that such stories "are NOT science".

    What a huge confession!

    Yet die hard devotees to atheist darwinism will turn a blind eye to this and come away from it "whining" that some dared to expose this inconvenient "detail" out in the open. They "spin" their complaint in some bogus argument claiming that Bible believing Christians can not dare quote Patterson UNLESS they can ALSO show that Patterson becomes a Bible believing Christian and accepts the Genesis account after confessing to such a huge blunder among evolutionists!

    How sad that UTEOTW and other must resort to such antics.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    But where did that "popularization" come from? How did that series MAKE it INTO the text books? Was it "someone having a dream and then publishing it" OR did someon ARRANGE a set of fossils and then SHOW THEM to the world AS IF such a smooth orthogenic transitional sequence had actually been found IN the fossil record just as was fraudulently presented!

    To understand how it got there - first you most understand the intellectual dishonesty that forms the heart of evolutionism's "story telling" passed off AS IF it was "science". Atheists sources admit to that background of deceit in this way --



    So with that as the background - it is easy to see how one atheist darwinist might easily have used the 'same tactics' as described above to arrange and publish a sequence of fossils in an order NOT ACTUALLY found in the fossil record.



    How sad - that this blunder got such wide acceptance so fast!
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Notice how UTEOTW has been claiming that these quotes are going to show just how wonderful the atheist darwinian doctrines really are - and yet what the quotes actually show is that atheist darwinianism is a false religion practiced in the form of a systematic program of deceit and story telling passed off as science!
     
  9. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    My, how soon you forget.

    Go look at this post.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=784073&postcount=46

    This is a post of yours. You quote me as having said, and this is what you quote in its entirety, "All I insist upon, and what you seem to have a hard time accepting, is that for a quote to be valid it must relfect the actual opinion of the author."

    Your response is that

    So there. You said that it is "patently false" that a quote should "reflect the actual opinion of the author."

    I cannot believe you actually said it and I really cannot believe that you then tried to deny it.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As "usual" UTEOTW does not "Show anything" to be true in his argument. All he succeeds in doing is DISPLAYING the very untruthful spin in a quote that he so likes to accuse others of doing!!

    How sad that UTEOTW is reduced to such antics.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Combined with the transparent antic of his previous post - the conclusion is innescapable - -atheist darwinist gaming has not served him well.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hmm - I wonder why UTEOTW has to keep deleting that part of the quote?

    Perhaps it is his transparent attempt to mislead.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Summary of the blunders of our evolutionist brethren so far --

    When Mercury dabbles in "some Bible" to prop up his claims I point out that merely "dabbling and telling stories" does not "pass as a good substitute for exegesis" here. To which Mercury merely "runs away".

    By contrast I follow my claim that his dabbling is empty story telling (as is all atheist darwinism - so at least he comes by it honestly) - with the substantive point - of SHOWING an example of actually exegeting the text Mercuries evolutionist orthodoxy so needed to "spin" instead of exegeting. In other words I SHOW the details of the problem.

    How sad that Mercury simply blunders into "story telling" when it comes to the Word of God and then when challenged to "actually exegete" the text - he simply runs away.

    This empty vaccuous approach to "the details" so often seen by devotees to atheist darwinism appears to flow easily into their treatment of scripture.

    Let us pray for them.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    Bob, restore however much of the quote that you wish. The point remains that you said that it was "patently false" that one should quote in a way that preserves the authors intended meaning. You advocated deliberate lying.

    I hid nothing. I have at least twice linked the reader to your original post such that they can read the whole thing.
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Summary of the blunders of our evolutionist brethren so far --

    When UTEOTW rambles with wild accusations that Bible Believing Christians are dishonest and evil as they quote atheist darwinists exposing the blunders of evolutionism's doctrines -- my response to claim that no such thing has happened. That in fact the Bible believing Christian approach has been to accurately state the quotes while the shallow evolutionist tactics have been to say that "no quote of an atheist darwinist admitting to flaws should be allowed if that atheist does not also become a Christian".

    I then provide numerous quote examples of atheist darwinists - given by a Bible believing Christian. This would supposedly provide UTEOTW rich ground in which to make his point "substantively" instead of just droning on in false accusation after shallow antic.

    Notice his reponse? Vaccuous. He points to nothing in the posts that are in error.

    How "instructive". Even more telling is the fact that he gleefully jumps off the cliff of false quotes by taking a quote from me here and spinning it by truncating the context. In that quote I deny that HE has MADE the point of quotes taken out of context and that his failure to sustain his false charge was soooo complete in the past that he even began whining about ANY QUOTE AT ALL- saying no quote should be taken into consideration if it did not bless his bias.


    This empty vaccuous approach to "the details" so often seen by devotees to atheist darwinism appears to flow easily into their every argument.

    Let us pray for them.
     
  16. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    As far as your quotes go, they are pathetic. They are despicable. You have been shown most of these quotes in context so many times that the only reasonable conclusion is that you do not care about the truth. You do not care that you must destroy the original meaning to get your "devastating" quotes.

    If you really thought that you could destroy evolution by quoting its supporters, you would not need to excise so much of each and every quote that the original meaning is lost.

    I notice that you did not bother to link to the quotes as you had threatened. I suppose that it would have then been too easy for the reader to go a few posts down, see the context and discover your dishonesty for themselves.

    Pathetic.

    So instead you drag up the same old, tired, dishonest quotes as before. Theese have all been put into context for you before, showing that the meaning was changed. How pathetic that the evils of YEism has so blinded you that you continue to post lies after the context is added.

    You never learn. You never change your ways. When presented with the proper context, you always reassert the same quotes again and try and fabricate some excuse why lying about what another has said is a good debate tactic. Pathetic.

    It is a waste of time to try and go through all of your quotes. You will post the same misrepresentations again. Just look at your Simpson quotes, he seems to be your favorite. Here are just a few times you have been corrected.

    You posted: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=428373&postcount=22

    The reply came: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=428375&postcount=24

    Here is a whole thread that might be interesting. I link to Bob's first post since he repeats the same quote: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=437725&postcount=1

    I encourage the reader to view the whole thread. It is about 2 years old. I think all of Bob's above quotes make an appearance as do refutations. There are also a large number of examples of out and out fiction in the current YE literature debunked. Read the whole thing if you have time.

    If not, here is the post where Bob's Simpson quote is corrected: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=437777&postcount=53

    Here Bob just asseerts what Simpson said witout even bothering to let the reader see the quote: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=392278&postcount=28

    He is of course corrected: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=392280&postcount=30

    It is interesting because after the full quote is given, he then gives his editted version: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=392296&postcount=46

    Here is another place where Bob repeats most of these quotes: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=437298&postcount=164

    Read the following posts and you will see each of them shown for the lies that they are. Here is the Simpson one in particular: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=437304&postcount=170

    That should be enough examples. I could keep going. I strongly encourage you to follow the last link if you follow no others because most of his quotes in this thread get their own response there.
     
  17. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    So I was working on Bob's quoting of Simpson. This is easier if we do one quote and then another.

    Bob quoted Simpson as having said:



    Let's let Simpson himself continue.

    I bolded the key words in each of the quotes. Monophyletic basically means that the evolution was gradual and in a straight line with little or no branching. Thus is Bob's quote from the previous page, all that Simpson is saying is that the fossil record reveals horse evolution to have not been straight line A to B to C. The second quote reveals that what Simpson really means is that the fossil record reveals horse evolution to be a highly branching and jerky endeavor. Simpson is not saying that he thinks that horses did not evolve as Bob would lead you to believe.

    So now the seond quote.



    From the discussion of the first quote, it is now clear that what is being said in the second quote is merely a repeating of the claim that the fossil record reveals the horse series to not be monophyletic.

    Let's see the full quote.

    Again, I added emphasis.

    Bob wants you to think that this quote is Simpson saying that the horse did not evolve. Yet in the larger context, we see Simpson talking about various aspects of the evolution of horses and calling it a "very instructive example" of evolution in action.

    If you look to the links in the previous post, you will see several examples of where this mistake has been pointed out to Bob in the past. In one case, as much as four years ago. Yet he continues to spread the same mistruths. This is what adherance to YEism brings. Pathetic.
     
  18. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Bob I think you're attributing bad faith to UTEOTW.


    When UTEOTW rambles with wild accusations that Bible Believing Christians are dishonest and evil as they quote atheist darwinists exposing the blunders of evolutionism's doctrines -- my response to claim that no such thing has happened.

    The fact is that most of these so called "evolution-refuting" works by creationists do get Darwin wrong. I'm not going to defend Darwin nor will I assail the creationist stance. But I will echo UTEOTW's statements.

    If a man believes a six day literal creation based on the Bible then fine. If the Bible is the highest authority then why would one need to defend or prove that position?

    The fact is that most scientific observation suggests that the earth is old.

    I certainly do not approve of the atheistic arrogance which dwells in the minds of many of the evolutionist biologists - most by default assume without any consideration that creationism is false and that creationists are idiots. They certainly overstate the facts at times - based on their own presumptions.

    But Ute has simply been honest in his appraisal of the data. The honest creationist can quite justifiably hold to his/her stance based on the biblical narrative. But in Christian demeanor he/she must be honest in reporting the facts - even if they do not always go where we want them to.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    There is no need to "imagine scenarios" where Bible believing Christians are "not quoting Darwin as an atheist would". I have given the VERY quotes here that in past times UTEOTW has derided assailed and slandered.

    He has seen these quotes JUST POSTED HERE by me so many times in the past I doubt that he can count them. He has whined about them every single time.

    So I am not simply "imagining" that I need to defend some theoretical scenario that UTEOTW is attacking. THEY ARE RIGHT HERE.

    If you really think you see "substance" in UTEOTW's claims about THESE QUOTES then why not be objective and point out the flaw?

    I have made the task EASY on this thread! I gave some of the very quotes that UTEOTW whines about.

    It "should be" a piece of cake since I have handed them right over to those who favor UTEOTW's views. Just SHOW that these quotes "should not be allowed" or that they show "Christians abusing the facts".

    SHOW the imagined flaw!

    I mean seriously - if we can not as Christians take these simple cases and either PROVE UTEOTW's slanderous charges against them or on the other hand SHOW that UTEOTW has in fact simply been droning on and on in nothing more than classic darwinist story telling "ignoring and glossing over inconvenient facts", then where will we ever be able to hold up a claim to "objectivity"?.

    As I have said - I have already made this task super easy for anyone that has an honest interest in taking UTEOTW seriously.

    Time to "show the math" - show your work. SHOW that his charges "stick".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Here is the classic mind numbingly baseless invention that UTEOTW uses
    "as predicted"

    As ALREADY stated in my earlier posts - UTEOTW claims that it is "dishonest" to quote an atheist darwinist IF THAT atheist darwinist DOES NOT become a Bible believing Christians that ACCEPTS the Genesis account!

    And there HE DID IT AGAIN!

    He does not QUOTE ME as EVER saying "Simpson does not believe in evolution any more nor does Simpson think that horses evolved" -- so he just MAKES IT UP!!

    How in the world can objective "thinking" Christians be duped by such shallow transparent tactics as UTEOTW offers time after time??

    I don't get it! This is EASILY SEEN right through!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #80 BobRyan, Jun 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2006
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