Messianic Kingdom

Yes, it's one kingdom. But it's not "earthly". It's spiritual and eternal.

The kingdom is within us. Just because we are on the earth in physical bodies does not mean that Christ's kingdom is "of this world". The phrase "of this world" means "according to the worldly system", IMO.

 

As a dispensation believer, I make only this claim:
(if you want to argue against some other dispensation theory, you probably won't get any body else to respond on the BB)
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Dispensation in the NT, KJV1769 family of editions (bold by Ed):

1 Corinthians 9:17 (KJV1769):
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel
is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 (KJV1769):
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might
gather together in one all things in Christ, both
which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2 (KJV1769):
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 (KJV1769):
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation
of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The Holy Spirit hasn't shown me a lot more than is here. I do know the Greek word being translated here as 'dispensation' is the Greek word from which we get 'economy'.

I do know (IN SUMMARY OF THE BIBLE off the top of my head) that this is what the conomy of God is like:

Bible Prophetic times:
'hour' = the appropriate time
'day' = the appropriate time
or '1 day' = 1,000 years
'½-week' = 3½-years
'1 day' = 'week' = 7 years
'month' = the appropriate time
year = the appropriate time

Other 'economy of God facts':

the blind see
the dead live
the deaf hear
the lame leap like deer
the first is last
the last is first
Jesus Saves (totally!)
God Rules!!

Frequently the Bible discusses what is to be is discussed in either present tense (is done) or past tense (done already done).

So a study of Greek tenses is generally frustrating. Us human type people can only do one day at a time. God can do everyday at a time - I think God may have invented all the days at the same time?

 

O.P. type discussion topic: // Can someone or anyone show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered TO ESTABLISH an earthly Messianic Kingdom for the Jews? //

No. For you will not receive it -- just as bad as cannot understand it.

I can say nothing else lest I offend an Elder. I see a very long thread about A-Mill got shutdown - that might have confused me about there being multiple threads. But I tire rapidly now that I'm an Elder also. I didn't have a hard time at all finding my unchallenged posts about this matter - which posts I'd like to discuss (sometimes I say wrong things just to see if somebody

I'll start my own topic proving: The Lord has Three Kingdoms. I am a saved-by-Jesus Person so I'm in two of those Kingdoms.

I'll just talk to people who want to talk on the subject at hand. I doubt there are very many here who will want to defend the 'dispy theory' that you propose, in fact, hardly anybody does, anywhere. Darby died about 120 years ago.

 

Check out this new Discussion (you know 'discussion' where there is some talk back and forth among folk):

Three Kingdom's of God (Eschatology)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1318788#post1318788

 

Again, you are 'blind' to what has already been given. Scripture HAVE been given. Every prophesy of the OT whereby the Kingdom of Israel will be restored speaks of this (EVERY ONE). Not the church which some have misunderstood but to the Messianic Kingdom which Christ will rule ON Earth.

Then you have a very limited understanding of Dispensationalism and I would suggest to you that you study 'their' works, and not reading from others what they are saying. The Church was not His 'back-up' plan but was part of the whole plan that will bring into being the Earthly Messianic Kingdom of Israel - His Jewish people

The Jews were looking correctly for His Kingdom but incorrectly in that they were looking for a kingdom after their own desires and plans not God's, and therefore not Christs. Thus when Christ was teaching to Disciples/Apostles about the Kingdom it was correct for them to ALSO ask when it shall be. You have to keep context and the context is that Jesus was teaching them about the Kingdom and thus their question was spawned from His teachings. Lord will you restore now again the Kingdom to Isreal?

Jesus did not tell them (as He consistantly did) of any error they viewed or held or something they did not understand, but ackowledged their question in the positive that 'that time' was for God to know since the power to bring it about will be done according to His timing. This was the Disciples asking not the Jews. These were those Jesus was revealing the truth to, not the Jews who did not believe. Keep the context.

And?? This is part of dispensational teaching (are you sure you aren't a dispy?)

And this proves what point or explains away what portion of Dispy? When you read Romans 9-11 it makes abundantly clear that God has 'set them aside' for a time but He is not done with Israel. Paul reminds us that all Israel 'will be' saved, after the time of the Gentiles is completed. If you will keep context and stop skipping all over the place you will see it is refering specifically to the Nation as a whole (and not every single individual). Yes, God even in the OT spoke of God extending toward the Gentiles as a people and that they no longer 'had to become' Jewish religiously in order to be His. BUT He also states that He will bring His people (the Jews) back into a relationship with Him and restore the Kingdom with a King who will sit on "Davids' Throne and this Kingdom will be one that bring peace to the entire world.

Like I stated before, the vast majority of the early church for the 500 years believed not only in the physical return of Christ for His people but also in a physical earthly Kingdom to be set up. (pre-mil) And I proved it to you using your own source regarding the pre-mil position earlier. It did not become a prevelant view until St. Augustine and most specifically shortly there-after. So that makes those whom the apostles taught, those whom they taught and so forth, that they held/believed in His return and restortation of the Kingdom of/to Israel with Christ as it's eteranl King. This was the main, predonimant, taught view of the Church for the first 500 years (approximately). That is not including proper exegesis and proper herminutics which insist these two basic things are scripturally taught beyond question.

 

I don't see the conflict. I believe both are true. I believe there is one Kingdom of God present throughout the various dispensations in which God deals with man.

 

amen brother.

However, how does that affect "beleivers baptism?"

 

Wasn't the revelation to Margeret a private revelation?

Christianity is the promise of the Old testiment not a future Jewish nation.

 

Old Regular said:

This scripture does not support the argument that you are making. To say that Christ's kingdom is not of this world does not refer to the location of the kingdom, but to its source. Consider this: Jesus, during his ministry, was not "OF this world", but he was certainly IN the world during his earthly ministry. So His source was heaven, but his location was earth. His kingdom is the same, sourced in heaven but located in earth.

The Acts 1 passage and Romans 11 passage that have been cited are more than sufficient to show that there is a future earthly kingdom.

 

Christianity is not some intermediate stage in soteriology. Christianity is the fulfillment to Abraham. I don't believe the Jewish Nation will be pre-eminant in Soteriological matters again. Nor do I believe they will reinstitute animal sacrifices.

 

In other words you can not refute the passage given because the context validates the Dispy position. Deal with the passage and context surrounding it. Jesus was teaching them about the Kingdom and then they asked if it was going to be restored again now. In the OP you asked asked a question, and it has been answered. Both case and thread should be closed.


Jesus Christ in Matthew 13:10-16 spoke to His disciples concerning the blindness of the Jews as prophesied in Isaiah.